Thunderbird Photon Design refresh and WebExtensions
With Mozilla changing core features of Firefox and cutting ties with Thunderbird, it was not really clear what direction Thunderbird's development would take.
It was clear however that Mozilla's decision to drop legacy add-ons to embrace WebExtensions impacted Thunderbird.
A blog post on the official Thunderbird blog highlights what the Thunderbird developers have in store for the email client.
First the good news: Thunderbird won't drop legacy add-on support (just yet). The stable version of the email client is version 52.5.0 at the time of writing, the next major release probably Thunderbird 59.0 or 60.0 if Thunderbird follows Mozilla in postponing the next ESR release.
Add-on authors need to work on their extensions however to make them compatible with current beta versions of the email client. This does not mean full rewrites as WebExtensions, but it still means that developers need to modify extensions to make them compatible.
Information on the required modifications are available on the Thunderbird Wiki. Thunderbird will support WebExtensions, as well as legacy add-ons and hybrid extensions.
The team has not made an announcement in regards to the end of support of the legacy add-on system. It is unclear at this point in time if this is going to happen (likely), and when it is going to happen. The most pressing question is this: will the next ESR version of Thunderbird support legacy extensions?
Thunderbird 57 and newer versions of the email client come with a Photon design refresh. You can see this in recent beta releases of the email client. The screenshot that is attached to the article highlights the new interface.
It is not a massive change, but you will notice some changes such as rectangular tabs instead of curved ones.
The team is in a transition phase right now. The blog post highlights that four hires were made in 2016 and 2017 to strengthen development, infrastructure and communication. Plans are underway to make Thunderbird.net the new home of the project.
Closing Words
Thunderbird is not dead; that is a good thing. Development continues and it is a good thing that support for legacy add-ons remains a thing, at least for the foreseeable future.
Now You: Which email client / service do you use currently?
Well, if you just use text mode (or even simple html), then there’s little reason why you couldn’t continue to use an older release of Thunderbird (all the way back to 3.x, or 2.x if you don’t want the actually useful features added by 3.x) if you want to, esp. if you use Gmail or another service that scans every message for malware etc. Mail protocols themselves just haven’t changed much/enough for many years.
I use Thunderbird, but I hate the text editor.
The auto-linefeed when pasting drives me nuts.
I hope they fix it in the next upgrade
Been using TB forever cause it allows me to save crucial emails to my PC. Only complaint is backing up the Address books. But now I use MoreFunctionsForAddressBook https://goo.gl/19Iy5o
Speaking of Thunderbird, which has always been my email client, I’ve just received an email (!) from Posteo.de which informs Thunderbird users of potential risks related to issues to be fixed in coming versions.
The text is a bit lengthy to be proposed here so her’s a pastebin link : https://pastebin.com/AUQ8v2LZ
The pompous text sounds like an advertising too, link only was a good idea, thanks.
I use one addon, provider for google calendar. If they break that, the program becomes obsolete.
If you find a more complete email client than the old version of Foxmail ….. the 7.0.93 version… TELL ME.
Preview attachments in ONE click INSIDE mail panel
CHOICE 2 (or 1) lines email panel
templates
rearrange accounts order
small screen …. reduced account panel
RSS … display original website page
….. etc…. etc
And I bought and tried ALL email client on this planet… to compare
@nico239: I looked all over the place to get a version, and of course came across your name numerous times. I found a French site that has a 7.0.93 version that can be downloaded, though it is in French.
http://foxmail.free.fr/index.php?p=downloads
Probably nice, but unfortunalely the translation in my langage is pathetic.
I’ve been using Thunderbird since I can’t remember when. Maybe since it first appeared. I don’t care about add-ons in a mail client, and I like to keep important email locally, not in the cloud. I’m using the SoftMaker Office theme that comes with the office suite. I mislike the flat Win10 look with all the white space and scrolling so avoid updating until absolutely necessary. The world without Thunderbird would be a sadder place.
I’m using Mailbird and love it.
It recently updated to a x64 version as well.
I still use The Bat! Professional. It’s not cheap, but it’s the most capable and secure e-mail client I’ve found. Plus it has and supports a x64 version out of the box.
I have recently installed Thunderbird after skipping it for a number of years, to see how much has changed. The UI is still pretty outdated but functional – but for the life of me I can’t save the column width in my Inbox view. Does anyone know how to prevent my columns (Attachments, Read, Between, Date…) from reverting to the default width and force them to remain as I change them?
Can’t find anything on Google.
Have a look at ColumnWizard addon
Despite that Mozilla has made me an ex-Firefox user with its missteps over the last few years, I still love Thunderbird (see Mozilla, if you’re reading this, when you’ve got something that just works, you don’t monkey around with it to change it for the sake of change)
I am terrified of how Mozilla is going to handle this issue for TB. Time now to research the backup plan in case things go south. And with Mozilla’s track record, I would bet that they will.
I’ve never found it necessary to install any addons on Thunderbird. It’s just an email client after all and even in that capacity I hardly ever use it preferring webmail where possible.
I hope the developers don’t change the UI too much though since I’m quite happy with it the way it is now.
I suggest Postbox. Based on Thunderbird, but more robust.
Are Thunderbird mails easily transferable to Postbox, does Postbox include a mail import feature?
I like Thunderbird provided the fact I don’t expect excessively from an email client because I don’t use it that much, nevertheless Postbox as evoked here triggers my curiosity.
@Appster, thanks for the link.
Side-note : I really appreciate them users such as you who follow up another user’s question, wondering, and take the time to answer explicitly. An attitude which is at the antipodes of the bashing & trolling behaviors. Constructive.
@crambie, copy/pasting an entire profile may have been successful in your case but I’d strictly advise to avoid such a practice. Already doing so within a same application (I have in mind browsers, namely Firefox, and email clients, namely Thunderbird) is risky when the versions differ so doing so with different applications (Thunderbird/Postbox) is really not a thing to do. Generally speaking copy/pasting pans of data is unfortunately something many users do without being aware that data is often tied to many aspects of the application and that it’s *really* advised to think twice before doing so. Data is often “alive”, dynamic, and not always a purely static, neutral entity.
When I tried it out I copied my profile over and it worked and the other way around when I went back. Like I said I didn’t actually like the app other than for its looks and, for me, certainly wasn’t the money they were asking. Actually even if it was free I wouldn’t have kept it.
@Tom Hawack:
Here is some information regarding the migration process from Thunderbird to Postbox:
https://support.postbox-inc.com/hc/en-us/articles/202199920-Importing-Email-from-Thunderbird
I wouldn’t recommend to use the same profiles. There might be severe bugs, as the clients are way too different. It’s better to follow the instructions in the link.
Or at least copy TB’s profile / mail folder contents to Postbox’s equivalent …
I’ve encountered in the past problems concerning email import which is really a handicap when thinking about a new email client, of course.
Since it uses Thunderbird as base, I think it should be possible to copy-paste whole current “old” profile into new Postbox (empty, without launching) one. Tho, it’s hard to tell how profile would behave under Postbox – if some content wouldn’t get corrupted or skipped
I liked Postbox beta and I was using it until they released stable version and asked me to pay for it – which back then was a big no-no
I second this. I have switched over from Thunderbird and never looked back. The $15 Christmas deal back then was definitely worth it. It has a way nicer interface than Thunderbird (if the redesigned one is the same as the one in the picture then this will continue to be the case) and has a whole range of functions for which you would need add-ons in Thunderbird. Although I must say that I also had no add-ons installed when I used Thunderbird, so it doesn‘t really matter.
More robust? Can it have two google voice tabs open? Can it show what mail client the sender is using? Does it have the “send later” addon? How about a confirmation before sending message?
I tried it but apart from looking nice it’s wasn’t so pleasant to use.
30 add-ons (for most of them probably never updated) with Fossamail here, in prevision of that I already switched, ouf.
@Klaas Vaak: My opinion is Fossamail is better than Thunderbird, some bugs never taking into account by Mozilla or current devs has been fixed, like the filter bar aleatory reseted at start etc.. As for Pale Moon I never had any crash with it, even using Flash intensively.
See @Anonymous? Others feel the same displeasure. No one is “bashing” the Moonie Team. It is – what it is!
@Anonymous: as far as I am concerned, FM is no better nor any worse than FB, they are on a par. The reason I am still using FM is that I don’t feel like going through another migration at this stage, having gone from TB to FM before. Although that migration was not too painful, it was still a pain & a waste of time. And I certainly don’t like the way he answered me when I criticised his dropping FM, which is why I posted my initial comment above.
I have no time for Moonchild or any of his projects anymore since I got burned by 2 of them, and kicked in the butt for expressing my displeasure. Be that as it may, I wish him well with his Basilisk, but I will not touch it with a barge pole. I have had it with Moonchild & his projects.
As for Thornton and Appster answering under my post, they should stop their Moonchild’s bashing. As Clairvaux and some others on here rehashing always the same speculation, they do not even realize that they are ridiculing themselves.
@Appster: I would not stop reading you, especially when you’re commenting under my posts. But permanently having to decode/sort what you write with your brain and what you write with your ass is very hard work.
@Anonymous:
> I’m not defending MoonChild in any way,
Yeah, sure. You are acting like the other zealots over there, demanding that we stop the (supposed) “bashing” of him, and yet you are not defending him. Totally makes sense. Yet clearly it doesn’t make a difference whether or not you defend him, as the facts still remain true. Your entire ad hominem stuff seems to be in place so that you don’t have to talk about actual facts.
> I just wanted to point the fact that you tire me with your comments.
Then stop reading them instead of crying us a river. After all, I had to read your brain fart accusations as well, and do not complain.
> If I had time like you for useless resentments I could find many other pearls from you about him, his production, his team, his fans.
Bring them on, then. No excuses! You have accused me of “bashing” him, and I am still waiting for proof.
> Both on Ghacks you are like roses in the vineyard, you’re not in to beautify it, you’re in to attract disease in first.
You know what is a disease? Both Moonchild’s zealots as well as Mozilla shills plaguing this blog. They hate each other to the blood, but they hate facts even more.
Thornton, Appster: I’m not defending MoonChild in any way, I just wanted to point the fact that you tire me with your comments. If I had time like you for useless resentments I could find many other pearls from you about him, his production, his team, his fans. Both on Ghacks you are like roses in the vineyard, you’re not in to beautify it, you’re in to attract disease in first.
@Anonymous:
I am talking about comments in this thread you twit. Not from previous statements (which I have no problem having made). You seem to be the one somehow sadly affected by all of this, but anyway. I see no problem in asking if Moonchild actually tried something prior to commenting on it. And as for Sadjadi (sp?) giving me the riot act in my email – holy crap fella: take a breather.
But again, those comments have nothing to do with what I commented on here. So again @Anonymous, it appears you just don’t like seeing any criticisms about the Pale Moon community. I wasn’t bashing anyone. And what about all of the “Fire-Chrome” comments I see here? I don’t get upset about those (but then again, I’m not a Mozilla defender at all. I’ve just come to like Quantum better than I thought I would)
At the end of the day, it just appears that Moonchild’s sphere of influence is shrinking. And I really believe that his arrogance is a good part of what got him there. Nuff said.
@Anonymous:
> I would have proposed FossaMail, but the Pale Moon team has killed it off last month or so.
That is factually correct, pal. They indeed terminated the project.
> Their reaction speaks volumes about them.
Pathetic… You have shortened the quote, so that I look worse than I am. Here is the full quote:
> Still, I agree with you that there is a high probability of failure. Have a look at this post which summarizes there problems accordingly: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=14357 Their reaction speaks volumes about them.
One has to look at the link before one can understand my assessment. A critic was attacked for pointing out some areas in which the Pale Moon browser was (and partly still is) lacking. Ironically, you have brought up the exact reason why I would never join their forum. Nice shot in your own foot right there.
I am still waiting for a quote in which I have supposedly “bashed” Moonchild… You are unable to deliver, right?
Calling others “clowns” while producing one shot in the oven after another is daring. Spare us from further brain farts, please. You can’t find a quote proving your opinion on me, and thus you come up with non-saying quotes proving absolutely nothing. Keep hiding behind that anonymous alias like a coward.
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/05/09/thunderbirds-new-home-is-the-mozilla-foundation/
Appster: Quote “I would have proposed FossaMail, but the Pale Moon team has killed it off last month or so”.
Appster: Quote “Their reaction speaks volumes about them”.
ETC ETC ETC
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/05/09/thunderbirds-new-home-is-the-mozilla-foundation/
Jody Thornton: Quote “Ewww Boy! I should watch what I write. One of the Pale Moon fanboys is private messaging me repeatedly, lecturing me for my posts here. I just can’t seem to kick him from my leg. And now he’s calling me “unreasonable”, saying “why didn’t I help Moonchild instead of flaming him here”?. But that’s just it. The Moon-Matt clowns won’t park their egos at the door and accept help when it’s offered. They need everyone to bow to them. Sheesh!”
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/17/pale-moon-team-releases-first-version-of-basilisk-browser/
Jody Thornton: Quote “So Moonchild doesn’t think that Firefox 57 performs well? Er, has he even tried it?”
ETC ETC ETC
Some non-bashing clowns killed me calling me unreasonable.
Uh @Anonymous, I was booted from there, as were many others with good ideas who just happened to not agree with Moonchild. Moreover, the mood has diminished a tad there since my leaving. Anyway, I prefer to post in these open forums where all views get to be heard.
Anyway, I was hoping you would clarify how I was bashing anyone. Criticising? Yes, but bashing? Besides I was sooooo wating to hear how we are “bashing ourselves”. Please enlighten me. You wrote that after all.
Or is it just that no one is allowed to shed any negative light on that development team? Is that it?
@Anonymous: I take it that you can’t show me where I have supposedly “bashed” Moonchild. You have probably realized by now that my argument is derived from his own writings. Good.
And no, I won’t join the Pale Moon board. I have seen how critics are treated over there. I prefer a neutral ground for discussions. Also, I see no point in supporting this project, for the reasons mentioned above. My time is better invested elsewhere.
Thornton and Appster, you should exerce your talents in a reasoned language in the Moonchild’s forum instead to play the cry babies here. But probably you can’t/do not want I presume.
@Anonymous:
Your reading comprehension seems to be lacking, pal. Have a look:
– Moonchild had to re-base his product already (Gecko 24 -> Gecko 38), according to himself and the source code (FACT).
– Nobody except himself and K-Meleon is currently using his platform (FACT).
– Moonchild already had to abandon one project (Fossamail), citing manpower / time management issues (FACT).
So, where do you see the bashing? I was just citing the facts anybody can conclude from his announcements on the Pale Moon board. That’s not even my “opinion”, much less “bashing”.
I am looking forward to further accusations of yours, anyway.
First off Anonymous, if you’re going to criticize us for voicing our opinions, have the kahunas to not hide behind an anonymous handle and be heard. Secondly, we never bashed him. We voiced criticisms – said and done. Their being here does not hurt you in any way. By the way, we were just backing what Klass was saying.
I would like you to specify though how we are “bashing ourselves”. Explain this because it should certainly make for good reading.
I am also still using Fossamail, and unhappy that Moonchild also dropped us like a hot potato. Sure, if he could keep up the development it is best to let go. But why did he start in the 1st place? It seems to m he does not learn because he keeps biting off more than he can chew: apart from Pale Moon he has another browser in development (forgot the name), and what on earth for? Does he know what he wants and does he know his capabilities?
Thing is, when the email providers (gmail, outlook, yahoo, etc…) decide at some point to change their protocols, you all will will be sh*t out of luck. I’ve already occasionally experienced that using Thunderbird and had to wait for an update to fix it.
@Lord Lestat says:
I just hate morons like you who are motivated only because of personal dislike because you have not been treated like King Arthur, as soon as “your Royalty” has entered the play-field. Reality check brings to light more likely that you are just another lame Morgana with mental deficits.
—————————————————————————————————-
Uh wait – you are the one calling yourself “Lord Lestat” and yet you say I demand royal treatment? That’s rich!
You don’t even know me Lord Lestat. Firstly, I NEVER demanded royal treatment, and you were never privy to any PM messages that Moonchild or some of his buddies emailed me. So you’re not fit to judge me in the least bit whatsover.
And secondly, you’re the one calling me a moron right now. Isn’t that bashing too?
And no, I’ve not been a demanding jerk. I’ve supported others in making suggestions (not demands), and if you read Moonchild’s and (at the time) Tobin’s responses, they come off very smart ass and pompous sounding. But you don’t see that side. You only see things how you want.
So enough of your “guys like you” commentary. I’ll retract my fanboy comment towards you; sound fair? But my comments towards the Pale Moon team stand. You may not like my comments, but it doesn’t make them untrue. If you really dig through the sequence of posts on the Pale Moon forum, you’ll see what I’m describing.
@jodythornton Wrong. My main browser is Otter-Browser and it will stay Otter-Browser as it has a better ecmascript support when you compare it for example with palemoon. The only thing i do is testing a bit around with Pale Moon from time to time.
I just hate morons like you who are motivated only because of personal dislike because you have not been treated like King Arthur, as soon as “your Royalty” has entered the play-field. Reality check brings to light more likely that you are just another lame Morgana with mental deficits.
As far as i have understood the concept of uxp – it is not about attracting others. It is about basing palemoon when it is done and like with many other Open Source projects if someone thinks uxp is useful – one can fork it and use it for one’s own benefits.
And no, you have been a demanding jerk – i have seen people like you on many different places, with all the same attitude. Must be the reason that i have given up on the Internet to 99% since years and use it only a couple of times either for reading certain news sources or for writing from time to time on some selected sources.
Also what Morganas like you never will understand is that minor browser projects like Otter, Qupzilla, Qutebrowser or palemoon do not care for luring users away from other browser projects, If someone uses a small project, it is a sign for the developer that one’s project is useful for the persons which are using it, nothing more nothing less. Palemoon is for sure not intended to compete with Firefox or Chrome. If that kind of developers would be interested in that, they would have done like Mozilla or Opera – taking all advanced features away and becoming that way more attractive to simpletons like you and else.
You and your friends never had the intent to give good advices. You wanted Pale Moon to be a mainstream browser, simple and feature less and the way YOU wanted it to have with all YOUR features and at the same time, like so many other simpletons argue – excluding all the other users who demanded more than a simple looking and working browser.
For guys like you customization is just turn some switches around in about:config. Every single REAL customization guys like you see as bloat and useless. And for this very simple reason i am thankful for all the small projects, may it be Otter-Browser for which i also deliver patches from time to time or may it also be palemoon – which may have it’s web-compatibility isses but still raises it’s middle-finger towards guys like you.
@Lord-Lestat
First off a quick literacy lesson for you – it’s “Useful advice” not “Useful advices”. That’s like Sylvester the cat chasing mousses!” Just thought I’d give you some “Useful advices” – oh crap I mean “advice”. See now I’m doing it.
When it comes to “demanding” features like DRM or fixing Facebook and Netflix compatibility, I’m not actually demanding features. I’m backing those who say, “Include this if you want to attract market share to Pale Moon”. I don’t need DRM and I’m not a Netflix user, BUT I do realize that these are MAJOR MAJOR services that others use, and if you want to attract users away from Firefox, then you need to make sure these services work with a minimum of fuss, or else new users won’t give Pale Moon a fair chance.
And don’t say “we don’t care if new users don’t like Pale Moon”, because Moonchild is developing UXP and Basilisk. He certainly hopes to attract developers into using UXP as a platform for building XUL applications. So he definitely wants to attract interest.
But what I learned is that Moonchild is an arrogant jerk, and his minions will stick up for his opinions, even when it makes no sense to. And to me, arrogance and fanboy behaviour are deplorable character traits. They are shameful to possess.
So if I want to display what an arrogant jerk Moonchild is, then I will use every platform I wish to in doing so. And don’t say it’s slanderous or libelous. That would suggest lack of truth. And his arrogance is there for all to see in his tone on the Pale Moon forum. If you refuse to see it, you’re a fanboy – plain and simple.
@Appster Well, there is no re-basing anymore beyond 56! 2 options are either to give up like the Cyberfox guy or do your own business like Moonchild does (partly) already.
The other one… Which neither will the users of pm or Waterfox or users from Seamonkey will like is adopting Firefox 57 code and having no control over ui elements anymore. Even if pm is getting another rebase now, Firefox 57 code and beyond will NEVER be used in palemoon. And no matter what you think about Moonchild or how much you dislike him or his project – this is the truth.
Btw. i was not talking to you but to this Jody troll. Because he IS a troll who is on a total palemoon rampage like that www . com guy. And while you dislike the pm project, you are writing in a much more honest and less hate filled way.
And no, there is a difference between aggressively demanding your stuff no matter what or making suggestions. The difference is how both points are presented. And Mr. Jody belongs to the first category.
BC constantly repeating the same wishes and not accepting a no – even if it may seem unreasonable – is unreasonable and arrogant – because if a maker says no, it is a no which has to be accepted. This point is a point where no discussion is needed at all because it should be logical.
@Lord-Lestat:
> Pretty sure some guys here must have a damaged and humiliated ego.
You probably mean both Pale Moon and Firefox shills plaguing those who dare to utter criticism, alright.
> “Useful advices” like adding DRM is important and demanding that over and over again
Well, you know: It’s a question of pragmatism versus ideology. All main browsers include DRM, and those main browsers together cover 99% of the market. Netflix, Amazon and others utilizing DRM are pretty much set. They don’t give a flying fuck whether or not Pale Moon includes DRM. They can do without Pale Moon users. The absence of DRM in turn hurts the Pale Moon project, because it prevents e.g. those who subscribed to streaming services from using this browser properly. Thus, the project hurts itself for ideological reasons. Also, name me one good reason why Moonchild couldn’t do the same as the Waterfox dev: Not bundling DRM with the browser, but giving users an option to download the module if they want it? I am eagerly waiting for your reasoning when it comes to this.
> or even more “useful advices” from others for example like “discarding all what palemoon is and instead switching to the latest engine versions available because is the only option”
But you realize that Moonchild already had to re-base to a newer Gecko engine (Gecko 24 in Pale Moon 26 -> Gecko 38 in Pale Moon 27), citing manpower issues when it comes to keeping the engine going. Have a look at the size of the teams working at Google/Microsoft/Mozilla/Apple… This does not really come as a surprise. So making this demand is reasonable, and Moonchild usually has to do it after a certain amount of time anyway. Also, he doesn’t have to discard “everything Pale Moon stands for” (whatever that may be). He just ports the interface (part of application code) to the newer engine (part of platform code). He doesn’t lose anything in the process. Thus, your sentence makes zero sense.
> In the case of a small project it is sometimes necessary that people get active on their own to retrieve helpful resources to get certain tasks done.
Developers of a software are usually lower in number than users of a software. That’s true for all projects out there. Demanding that users start co-developing the browser is therefore unreasonable. You just can’t expect that if you want to be taken seriously. Anyway, I find it funny how you say that Moonchild is the owner and therefore can dictate the course of the project, yet users have to get involved anyway. That’s not how it’s going to work. Following that logic, the low number of Pale Moon devs seems to be an indicator that only a few people want to follow Moonchild unconditionally and to invest their time for him without a second thought.
> What you and others have done is demanding your beloved x-mas presents – you have not offered any kind of help and only demanded certain stuff because YOU wanted to have it around.
So input and constructive criticism (which can contain negative statements at times) are not of any value? Fine, then. Again: You can’t reasonably expect any users demanding something at some point in time to immediately become developers. That’s just stupid and completely unreasonable.
> And when people like you and others do not get their x-mas wishes fulfilled, your brains shut down in a massive way and that kind of users who are represented by you and some others get a medium sized melt-down.
Maybe we are reading different forum boards, then. Usually it is Moonchild and his zealots who melt down quickly when somebody criticizes their product or even brings up features they don’t like. They have expelled multiple reasonable people this way already.
> Also, bringing your childish personal flame-wars with the palemoon devs and users to public without giving your opponents a fair chance to defend themselves…
First off, nothing written here even qualifies for the word “flame war”. Secondly, Moonchild and his minions are frequently reading and (obviously) commenting here. So, what’s stopping them? They are having a fair chance and are not making use of it. (Speculation: Maybe that’s because nothing either I or Jody have written here is untrue?)
> as said… you guys must have a certainly damaged and humiliated ego!
It gets boring by now, don’t you think?
> Being less of a coward and actually having some kind of balls you would for example visit IRC and talk to them from person to person.
If their usual reaction to criticism on the Pale Moon board is anything to go by then this does not make any sense. Also, would changing the channel of communication really make a difference? The guys replying are still the same, their attitude is still the same. And regarding “balls”: Moonchild banning reasonable critics from the forum instead of having an actual discussion with them… Yep, that’s the “balls” you talk about I suppose.
> Guys like you are arrogant in a very displeasing way. Because that is all what you are.
I am shocked. Good that you are here, otherwise I would not have known what I truly am. Thank you.
> Demanding stuff and then getting angry if you do not get it.
Plain wrong. Again, constructive criticism is not allowed in the Pale Moon forums. However, i already know that you and I must be reading different forums.
> It is not your right to demand what should be or should not be present in a project.
Because input is not allowed…
> It is the right of the owner to decide.
…and Moonchild is leading the project his way whatever others may say…
> And if one does not like that decision, one can simply leave without becoming a troll.
…users simply leave it behind.
Lestat, you know that I have always supported you when it comes to arguing against Mozilla’s hostle course towards its users. The control they are taking away from us and all… However, this doesn’t mean that I have to lose my (IMHO realistic) view on the Pale moon project. The project is small and will have to follow Mozilla eventually. They have already terminated projects citing manpower issues etc. So, what’s your post all about? i don#t get it. nothing I have said about the Pale Moon project is untrue. I am not badmouthing them. I am just realistic about them.
It is quite funny to see here others giving other projects mocking names like “Moonie Team” and that persons still see themselves as not bashing or hating? Pretty sure some guys here must have a damaged and humiliated ego.
@Jody Thornton as far from what i can read anonymously on the palemoon board you have been earned it to be booted – exactly like some other guys earned it too. “Useful advices” like adding DRM is important and demanding that over and over again (also, DRM is not coming to palemoon once it is uxp based as DRM support will in that case be removed) or even more “useful advices” from others for example like “discarding all what palemoon is and instead switching to the latest engine versions available because is the only option” are really NOT helpful at all. In the case of a small project it is sometimes necessary that people get active on their own to retrieve helpful resources to get certain tasks done. That is helpful.
What you and others have done is demanding your beloved x-mas presents – you have not offered any kind of help and only demanded certain stuff because YOU wanted to have it around. And when people like you and others do not get their x-mas wishes fulfilled, your brains shut down in a massive way and that kind of users who are represented by you and some others get a medium sized melt-down.
Never had the idea that if you want a x-mas present so badly that you have to deliver patches on your own as it is simply not possible for a small project to be Santa Claus for everyone? :D
Also, bringing your childish personal flame-wars with the palemoon devs and users to public without giving your opponents a fair chance to defend themselves… as said… you guys must have a certainly damaged and humiliated ego! Being less of a coward and actually having some kind of balls you would for example visit IRC and talk to them from person to person. Guys like you are arrogant in a very displeasing way. Because that is all what you are. Demanding stuff and then getting angry if you do not get it. It is not your right to demand what should be or should not be present in a project. It is the right of the owner to decide. And if one does not like that decision, one can simply leave without becoming a troll.
@Anonymous: I agree, I am not interested in his “boiling brain” either. I gave Pale Moon & FossaMail a try a couple of years ago but, maybe for the wrong reasons (Flash made it crash), I got disillusioned with PM but stuck with FM because it is so similar to Thunderbird. But, like you, I will decide to change when the time comes.
@Klaas Vaak: I’m absolutely not interested in the Moonchild’s boiling brain. I just use Pale Moon and FossaMail to keep my add-ons working, and which concerning security are still both maintened. I will decide to change when the time comes, what always happens for everything.
@Jody Thornton: I know, right? All seem to be content without him. And this has reasons! After all, Mozilla – for all its failures in recent memory – still has a vastly bigger developer base than any project being derived from their code. Hence why even Moonchild has to rebase from Gecko 24 (Pale Moon 26) to Gecko 38 (Pale Moon 27) and now plans to move to Gecko 52 (UXP/Pale Moon 28?).
Waterfox always was a slightly modified build and has at any given time followed Firefox closely. Alex has already said that he intends to release a Quantum build in the near future. Waterfox 56 is treated in an ESR-alike manner to ensure a smoother transition than the one Mozilla has pulled off. That’s all there is to it. Consequently, this build will be dropped eventually, as Alex has already announced multiple times.
Thunderbird and SeaMonkey still rely on Mozilla infrastructure and have always followed Mozilla closely.
Monnchild is on his own and vastly overestimates his importance, which is something he should realize. He regularly bites more than he can possibly chew (nicely put @Klaas Vaak), both when it comes to current projects and future goals.
I never saw the point in FossaMail nor do I see the point in keeping Pale Moon going. If anything, he should have dropped Pale Moon altogether the moment he felt that Basilisk was ready for prime time. Keeping Pale Moon around is pointless. However, try to explain that to the zealots at the Pale Moon board. I think the potential shitstorm could even be heard at the Firefox subreddit.
As for K-Meleon: It only adopts the Goanna engine because there has been a Gecko 38-based build (K-Meleon 76) anyway, thus making it easier to adopt the Gecko 38 descendant Goanna. Furthermore neither the current Goanna nor the future one have any Rust components. Rust doesn‘t play nocely with Windows XP, which is something the K-Meleon folks are obsessed about. Thus they found their way to Moonchild.
However, I doubt that anyone else will be interested in his project.
Notice he had no time for FossaMail, and he dropped it (long before Basilisk was even on his radar). Yet he now has time for Pale Moon and Basilisk. Interesting.
He’s creating the UXP platform so that other Mozilla-like applications can be built from it. Yet the SeaMonkey Council, the Thunderbird group and Waterfox all seem fine without him. Oddly enough, K-Meleon seems interested in using the Goanna engine.
More change just for the sake of change IMO. I have Thunderbird configured to do what I want and I’m used to the layout. Paradigm changes (like Mozilla is guilty of with Firefox) make me start looking for other programs.
I use Thunderbird but I do find the layout very cluttered and dated. Used to use OperaMail which has a much better design/ interface but sadly not supported any more. I think Thunderbird could learn from this.
Cluttered and dated? Yeah, in other words, it’s made for people who actually get things done. Have you used Gmail’s interface? It’s absolutely atrocious, the icons are terrible, the mail organization system is awful compared to folders, the compose window is a hodgepodge of baffling bad UI design choices, but IT’S SO UNCLUTTERED AND MODERN!…and it really, really sucks to use for actually getting things done. Thunderbird is from an era when people used their computers for actual work. I looked up screenshots of OperaMail and it’s mystifying where you’re getting “uncluttered” and “modern” from in that program; it looks like a usability nightmare. Perhaps your complaints say more about you than about Thunderbird.
@Anonymous says:
” …. I looked up screenshots of OperaMail and it’s mystifying where you’re getting “uncluttered” and “modern” from in that program; it looks like a usability nightmare. Perhaps your complaints say more about you than about Thunderbird. ….”
Holy Sheesh. And I’m told I make things personal. Relax! I don’t think Opera Mail looks all that bad, but I personally would have preferred Thunderbird Mail v2x (or even SeaMonkey Mail). I liked those.
funny I never knew there were tabs as I never use with thunderbird do people leave hundreds open like they do with browsers……?
I do not have hundreds of tabs open, even with my browser. However, with TB, having two or three tabs open can be useful if you are cutting and pasting information from one post into another. The number of open tabs at any given time is just a matter of self-discipline. ( I can make a good guess at the state of someone’s kitchen worktop by looking at their browser’s tabs. Messy minds, messy worktops.)
I can make a good guess at the shape of someone’s brain by looking at their stance on another person’s traits. Stiff stance, stiff mind.
Not at all. People can do what they like. Just don’t come on here and complain when your Thunderbird (or Firefox) crashes because you have 150+ tabs open and somebody was too lazy to organize themselves.
That’s the issue I have with it.
I can make a good guess at the shape of someone’s brain by looking at their stance on another person’s traits. Stiff stance, stiff mind.
I’ve got my boss using Thunderbird, with one of the Lookout add-ons that reads winmail.dat files – possibly this one https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/addon/lookout-fix-version/ – will be interested to see if that remains compatible.
I use eM Client. If one of us has trouble with an attachment, the other can usually open it.