Pale Moon team releases first version of Basilisk browser
The Pale Moon team has released the first version of the Basilisk web browser that is based largely on Firefox code.
Basilisk is a XUL-based web browser that uses Pale Moon's layout and rendering engine Goanna, which is a fork of Firefox's rendering engine Gecko. The browser itself is a fork of Mozilla's Firefox code base without the technology that went into the creation of Firefox 57 (but with the tech that Mozilla dropped in the process)
In short: Basilisk is based on recent Firefox code for the most part that supports legacy features such as XUL which Mozilla dropped with the release of Firefox 57.
The development team sees Basilisk "primarily as a vessel for development of the XUL platform", and as a "potential replacement for Firefox to retain the use of Firefox Extensions".
Basilisk Browser
The current development version of Basilisk is available for Windows and Linux. On Windows, all versions of Windows starting with Windows 7 are supported. The developers recommend 1 Gigabyte of RAM as a minimum (2 Gigabyte for heavy use scenarios), a modern processor and a dedicated GPU.
On Linux, any modern Linux Distribution should do but you should check out the requirements page on the Basilisk website for details on libraries that the browser requires.
It should not come as a surprise that Basilisk's interface looks pretty similar to that of Firefox pre-version 57. It features the same customization options and preferences as Firefox for the most part; and all of these open exactly as they do in Firefox.
The browser supports legacy extensions, and you can head over to Mozilla's AMO site to install them right away in the browser. But the web browser supports WebExtensions as well. Support is experimental right now, and some WebExtension APIs that are Mozilla-specific may not be supported yet.
Still, it appears as if Basilisk will support legacy add-ons for Firefox and WebExtensions, and not one or the other.
Extensions don't need to be signed to be installed in Basilisk.
Basilisk supports NPAPI plugins as well (just like Pale Moon does), which means that you can run Flash, Java and other plugins in the browser.
Other major features that the browser supports are WebAssembly, modern ciphers, HSTS, and basically any feature that modern Firefox supports as well apart from multi-process which it does not support.
The development team focuses on advancing the underlying architecture of the browser right now. This means that there won't be many changes to the browser's front end or interface.
Closing Words
The initial version of Basilisk works pretty well, and if you have used a recent version of Firefox, you will find yourself right at home. Extensions work, and web compatibility is probably a bit better than that of Pale Moon thanks to the Firefox codebase the browser is based on.
Now You: What's your take on the first version of the Basilisk browser?
how do i get it for MAC/dmg file?
Basilisk’s experimental WebExtension support will be dropped.
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=21298
That I don’t know @Slobodan. It seems to me that Waterfox 56x is more on track with its direction. Whereas there are still conflicting messages about the whole Basilisk/UXP affair.
At first, it was said that UXP would not be used for Pale Moon. Then that was changed to “uh, for now”, and now it’s pretty clear that one day Pale Moon will be built on UXP (which is what I thought in the first place)
It seems Basilisk will be rebased on 52 ESR once again, and they’ll claw their way back to developing it. I really don’t hold much hope though.
Plus right now, the big deal appears to be that business about a BSD developer trying to fix compatibility issues with their OS by applying some sort of fixes to Pale Moon. I see that Moon-Matt are both up in a fury about it. They may be right in terms of their argument, but they come across as so non-accommodating, that they push interested and invovled parties away.
Mozilla reminds me of Microsoft: something’s wrong with them.
I was hardcore PaleMoon-er until they removed jetpack and made impossible to filter search results. Jetpack in Basilisk?
im a long term palemoon user and i have mozilla firefox quantum installed also and i must admit im very impressed by the new firefox.
As for basilisk,well i would imagine palemoon in itself is enough for one sole developer so taking on another platform to maintain is indeed brave and noble but in the long term will be troublesome.
Maybe moonchild has bitten off more than he can chew.
Seems so.
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18211
Makes me wonder though why this sort of thing isn’t a setback for Waterfox.
I’m reading features and differences with Mozilla Firefox and I’m quite pleased. What makes me rise my eyebrow is the partial WebExtensions support announced (hope this doesn’t restrain capacity for addons), the use of Australis (which Palemoon declined to use). And what I’m missing (also in Palemoon) is an Addons Manager with a pre-Firefox4 style (not on a tab), able to use an extension like Filter Extensions which features hasn’t been matched since then.
@ Clairvaux: Thx
They don’t understand that in our society, the “beautiful” is king. It’s not the problem to know if it’s good or not, it’s like that, that’s all. In the 21e century, software need to be more than useful. The UI has to be ergonomic and well designed, like the logo, the website… When I discovered Pale Moon, it was like “Back To The Future” ;) Some people like old school design, ok this great, but when you see Pale Moon, the logo+name of the new project and the forum, I think they can listen some advice about design without answer to people with a “Trump” attitude ;) This project is already dead for me, because the team mentality and I understand Alex Kontos why he doesn’t want to merge with the Basiliks project. Oh my God, he’s right!
Hi George, the MoonChild’s bodyguard.
I have been permanently banned from the Pale Moon forum. It’s the first time in my life, Champagne!
“Reason given for ban: Breaking several forum rules that you agreed to when registering.”
I breaks several rules, because a took the time to give my opinion… Bye bye with no regret, I lost my time on this board. My God, the “chief” is just a tyrant with slaves developers, no democracy at all.
@Arnaud, @Clairvaux, you are so engrossed in your egos, pathetic name-calling and preconceptions that you fail to see the simplest, elementary things, all unrelated to browsers or anything in this article.
Discussing with people who have answers even before questions is pointless so, keep fighting against evil bullies and whatever you see fit. Keep spreading your enlightened ideas about mentalities, people, politics, life and everything else.
@George: next time you see your mechanic, you’ll explain to him his job and that he have a very big ego, if he told you that you have to change the brakes of your car… Same to you : “you fail to see the simplest, elementary things”.
Finally, just by a logo I discover the project mentality and now, I know clearly which project of Firefox I don’t want to support. I stop loosing my time with people like you, bye.
@Arnaud, @Clairvaux, of course. Keep fighting against free software, enslaved bodyguards, Sectarianism, The Führer, Nazism, free speech abolishment, Dictatorship, Tyranny and totalitarian systems. The world needs more brave people like you.
@George: “fighting” against you as you say, it’s not fighting against free software… You are just a little part of the free sotfware. It’s enough, come back to earth, your are not God. I’m not born yesterday and I do not need your permission to say what I have to say. You are blind that all and particularly hateful. Yes, the world needs certainly more brave people like us (we have to understand retard, I imagine) than a poor hateful who do not accept any comment. Accept criticism show intelligence (“accepter la critique, c’est faire preuve d’intelligence” in french). Go on your “moon” and think about that. For people as clever as you, it would be easy to understand.
I don’t fight against free software, George. You would know that if you had bothered to read me at all. As a matter of fact, I mostly use free software. I fight against badly behaved bullies such as you, who think they have a licence to lord it over others just because not everybody likes the software they like (and who transfer here their quarrelsome attitude over from other Web places).
That, the world certainly does not need more of.
That’s a perfect example of the sectarian attitude which is supposed to be the epitome of cool is some tech circles. It’s a paradox that the Open Source movement is, for a part, a hotbed of this sort of mindset. Write a motto on your banner, then do exactly the opposite. A very prevalent attitude in the wider society.
Anybody know whether language packs are available for Basilisk? I’m specifically interested in Thai.
I intended to post that question on their forums this evening after registering there, but it seems that my webmail provider is banned for some strange reason. It’s the only email account I have though and it’s also a paid for account so I’ll be a bit peeved if I have to open another account somewhere just to use on the Pale Moon forum.
@TelV, you asked about language packs and I told you you could easily find the answer to that in the Basilisk forum. I even provided the answer for you. You don’t need Google to search inside a forum. That’s all. I never said anything about your email account issues.
@ George, well, the answer is apparently No. Basilisk is too unstable to support language changes at this time according to relevant threads, so your suggestion to search the boards was in that respect a good idea.
You don’t need to register to search, this has been asked and answered right there at the Basilisk sub-forum (=English only for now) – https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17405
So the Pale Moon forum blacklists Tutanota. How ironic… Firefox is, in theory, a privacy-minded environment, but a Firefox fork specifically forbids one of the best-known and most-respected privacy-minded email providers out there…
One more instance of do as I say, not as I do. Open-minded folks, really ? Control freaks, more like…
I didn’t want to search George, I wanted to comment on an existing post.
The email a/c I was trying to register with (Tutanota.com) is the same one I use on this forum. Considering that Martin doesn’t have any problem with it I don’t see why Basilisk should.
There is a contest for a new logo? And for the name, nothing? ;) I discovered the project yesterday only…
Searching before posting might solve your questions easier – the contest was for both name and logo. https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=15557
By the way, it has ended months ago.
@ George
Yes, bad, stupid and unprofessional is an opinion. An opinion isn’t just something that pleases you, the persons it is directed towards or the general commentariat. There’s a trending… opinion, these days, that opinions should be mild and gentle and middle-of-the road, offend no one and generally agree with most of the majority says.
Well, guess what, this is precisely the opposite of an opinion. Also, stupidity can be objectively evaluated. Saying that something, or someone is stupid is not only an opinion. It’s also a matter of fact.
“It’s up to the developers to decide what to do in the end.”
The Führer knows best, so why don’t you just shut up ?
“What makes you think your suggestions are necessarily better anyway ?”
This is not an even an opinion, merely an insult.
“Waterfox is a different browser, easier to maintain (at least until now) and much closer to Firefox – all reflected on its cool name.”
This is an opinion, except that you offer precisely no facts to support it. Waterfox is a cool name ! And we should believe you, rather than Arnaud, because ?…
@Arnaud, it’s up to the developers to decide what to do in the end. It’s their time and hard work. Opinions were welcomed, why make a public contest otherwise? “Bad, stupid, unprofessional” is not “just an opinion” and poor English is hardly an excuse. What makes you think your suggestions are necessarily better anyway? Saying it’s “better” and others are “stupid” is childish, not to mention judging something complex from a name and logo.
You say others don’t listen, but you are the first one not to. Waterfox is a different browser, easier to maintain (at least until now) and much closer to Firefox – all reflected on its cool name. For Basilisk, they said from the *very beginning* they didn’t want name connections to Pale Moon or Firefox. Yet, you make a single post, ignore all that, make ALL of your suggestions include “Fire”, “Fox” and “Moon” and expect to be taken seriously with invalid, irrelevant suggestions on an matter closed months ago! You basically insult the developers’ work (even if you didn’t mean it), call their decisions stupid and ignore absolutely everything they say. An unusual way to offer help!
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=15557
1. Lunisolar (name and logo in private browsing mode version)
2. Moonfinder (for the name, but the logo is better than Basiliks version)
3.1 Conductor (for the original approach)
3.2 Breakeven (name sounds good and the reasoning)
@George : I see what you mean, but it’s quite hard to me to say the same in english, but kindly. That I saw, it’s that MoonChild do not listen the point of view of all other and for me they are more in the right way than him.
Make logo is part of my job, so I give my opinion only to help. If a mechanic want to check my car and give me some advice for free, I think i’ll listen him, because it’s his job and he knows what is saying. In fact, I fed up to loose my time to expose my point of view to developers that think “speed only” (about Firefox) and I did it maybe a last time with Basiliks. If some people can’t understand that, honestly I don’t care.
The Basiliks logo is a crap, the name as well, as many people think, that’s all. It’s the opposite of Waterfox, with a logo well designed and with a clever and friendly name (fire != water) and keep “fox”.
@Arnaud, I’m sure ignoring everything that was posted there months ago and appearing out of nowhere with constructive claims like “bad, evil, unprofessional and stupid” will be greatly appreciated.
Geez, where has common sense gone…!
Yep, I did it just after ;) I let my opinion on the Pale Moon forum anyway. After reading, little see how MoonChild looks like and know more about his project, I think will support Waterfox.
Muh Vanity Basilisk.
Notice the “ProxySel” addon still working. ;o)
Maybe you edit it for port 9051/9050 upon need.
Maybe you edit the install.rdf to accept your basilisk /firefox version 99.0 or whatever.
http://i.imgur.com/lcNQquC.png
Maybe help some choose the right umatrix? I had some grief.
note the versions.
The resurrect links .xpi (I hacked the hell out of the code) to open more than just archive .org/.is and isitdownorjustme, I hacked it to do a proxy chain, and I hacked it to do a PDF of the webpage. ;o) for example try loading a page of a electronic schematic on radioaficon and see how sending the online PDF to get my page is so much more simple, especially when I have more than one radio on the shielf.
I am Palemoon and Cyberfox user. But to say the truth, name and logo of new Moonchild browser is pretty disgusting.
The same! It looks like an horror movie title or something like that. The name is a little unpronounceable and the logo just ugly!
I’m freelance. I work on web development and web design on each project and give advice in marketing to my customers… I draw logos too, so I know very well this side of the business. I prefer the Basilisk project than Waterfox project for the moment, but if I have to give 10 points for the name and the logo of each project, i’ll give 9 for Waterfox and 1 to Basilisk, no more. Why?
Waterfox has a very pretty logo and keep “fox” his name, so people understand quickly… Dolphin or similar, is a lovely animal. The webpage project is well designed.
Basilisk has an ugly logo and he’s hard to write and hard to say. Serpent is a evil… The webpage project is not the worst, just because logo is very ugly and the name so bad :)
For me, the project have to change urgently of name code and logo. Sorry if hurt someone.
Argeed. Logo looks like evil amateurish drawing. Brrrr….
I understand that the main thing is under the hood code, but not the logo.
But wtf??
I send my design to contest, but don’t have time to do vector stuff, only drawing sketch.
-1 for your focus on name & logo
+1 for your name ROLAND DESIGNS THE FUTURE
We are in 21e century. Name and logo are VERY important and a wrong one can sign the death of the project, EVEN the project is great or not. sp808 is completely right!
I tried with Basilisk and Waterfox to run this site “dailymotion”, well it is a catastroph. I tried with Chromium it works far better.
@Anonymous + @FS: Thanks for Your answers to my post (somehow i can’t reply – can be some of my blocks/blockers).
I just started from scratch, and it did work well, finally. Some minor hickups, but they were solved !
Tried copy the FF-profile, but that failed….
All my extensions in FF 52.4 ESR works in Basilisk even CTR !
It is up and running !
@ Stefan,
My problem may have been caused by the CTR settings I imported which were created in FF ESR 52.5
I’m assuming here that you installed CTR in its barebones state i.e. without importing any settings you were using in 54.2 (which is out of date incidentally). https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/52.5.0/releasenotes/
Anyway, if you do encounter the problem download the 1.7.3.2beta1 patch Aris released to address the issue: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/versions/beta?page=1#version-1.7.3.2beta1
I’m still struggling a bit to understand both the current and future use cases surrounding this program. In the short term (2-3 years) a lot of plugins that Firefox users didn’t want to lose will continue to function under Basilisk. That’s definitely going to find some users and some interest. Meanwhile, Mozilla’s putting some excellent developers into a faster and more secure browser as evidenced by some exciting work on Rust. I’m not sure what will happen to Basilisk as plugin developers move away from the older, slower platform.
Whatever the case, I’m glad to see a browser that’s not based on WebKit. I worry Chrome is going to just keep making more and more components closed-source until it makes no sense to use anything else but the Google version.
@ George
I just received an email with your comments regarding CTR, but cannot find the post here on ghacks. Did you delete it?
@TelV, I didn’t delete it but sometimes it takes a while for some comments to appear here. The email notification arrives immediately, but the actual website post doesn’t.
A few times, website posts may never appear at all so things can get confusing. I think Martin knows about this issue but I’m not sure what can be done about it.
OK, I’ll hang on and see if the original appears.
I installed it about 10 minutes ago after which I went to AMO and downloaded CTR. After importing CTR settings from a backup I created this morning, Basilisk ceases to function as a browser. By that I mean that URLs won’t load and about:config can’t be accessed at all. The only way to do either is to disable CTR.
Oddly enough, the Welcome page loads and the link to Github works as well, but typing a URL in the location bar doesn’t work.
I’ll go report it on Github and see what they have to say.
Update on to my post above.
Aris, the CTR developer has released a patch which fixes the issue in FF ESR 52.5 which was preventing use of the location bar after installing it. If anyone else experiences the same problem, you can download the 1.7.3.2beta1 patch from here: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/classicthemerestorer/versions/beta?page=1#version-1.7.3.2beta1
There’s also some interesting background info posted to the Github thread I created written by user Vangelis which may be interesting to some. https://github.com/MoonchildProductions/moebius/issues/193
I think I’m getting dementia :(
I meant to say the 1.7.3.2beta1 patch fixes the problem in Basilisk, not FF ESR.
This is a nice surprise. I didn’t expect the developers would collaborate so nice and swiftly so I stand corrected. Kudos to all involved, the Basilisk developers for giving users yet another interesting alternative to Firefox, and to the CTR developers for jumping in to support it.
I seriously doubt you could a run a major UI-altering extension like CTR that’s meant for a specific product (Firefox) on any other product. It’s not meant for any other browser and the breakage you describe is the natural result of running incompatible software together – obviously not a browser problem in this case.
As a general comment, I might add here that Firefox’s Australis UI has been dragging users into the bad habit of replacing the UI right after install. It is a bit absurd imo. I mean, if you don’t like the UI at all why keep trying to hack it with CTR? Why keep using browsers with this UI in the first place? (Firefox, Basilisk etc.).
@TelV, it’s cool CTR works with Waterfox, didn’t know it. Not sure if CTR is being developed, you could ask its developer to continue supporting Waterfox and Basilisk but I think he’s still struggling with Firefox (https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/13/customize-firefox-57-with-css/). By using FF with CTR/CSS, you are still “driving backwards”, accepting whatever “the government” decides and using the same car. My point being, it’s a vicious circle:
1. Mozilla degrades FF
2. Many users leave, Mozilla doesn’t listen
3. Talented programmers waste -imo- their resources on FF workarounds, a parallel in-browser battle
4. Users embrace workarounds but still complain because FF keeps degrading and workarounds can’t do miracles
5. Mozilla again ignores users and claims “we are doing well, since you still use FF”, ignoring the workarounds too.
6. Alternative browser projects do not flourish as they could, because users still use FF or expect them to behave just like FF or the FF/CTR/CSS hybrid “monster”.
7. FF keeps degrading, everybody loses (except Google and perhaps Microsoft/Apple). If FF finally dies, we won’t just lose FF but a lot more.
I tried FF 57, it has some merits but I just don’t have the time to watch over Mozilla for telemetry and unwanted stuff they might add on each update. Even more time is needed to make sure to apply all CSS workarounds (for a decent UI, let alone ideal) which require their own constant updating and maintenance.
To sanely run Firefox, more user-maintenance work is now required than running its non-mainstream alternatives! I’d rather use Edge or even IE for those few times I may need a mainstream browser. FF has strayed too far away. Basilisk seems more like an experiment, an in-between step – we’ll see where this whole mess takes us.
According to the CTR UI, it’ll work with Waterfox: http://imgbox.com/HT3bFrn4
But I got the impression from Martin’s article that any extensions could be downloaded from AMO. If there’s going to be restrictions in place for some of them, then that’ll make Basilisk less appealing I think.
As for changing the UI, well that’s a matter of personal taste. In the beginning when FF was launched tabs were located beneath the location bar. Users get used to doing things a certain way and provided it works efficiently I don’t see why they should be forced to change just because the developer decides that the Google Chrome layout is more attractive. Relocating buttons to the right hand side of the toolbar is another thing I don’t like. I’m used to having them on the left hand side.
Imagine that your government decides one day that all vehicles should be driven backwards in future. Will you just knuckle under and accept it? I don’t think so.
How do i import a FF 52.4 ESR-profile to Basilisk ? The only thing i get during setup is if i want to import from IE….that is a browser i don’t use at all ! From within Basilisk there is no way to import anything….
“there is no way to import anything” because importing profiles from any Mozilla products breaks the browser.
@FS — DO NOT DO THAT OK ??
@FS: https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17398#p127553
Quote from Moonchild: “People having these issues MOST LIKELY have copied their Firefox profile across to Basilisk. Don’t do that and blame us when it breaks things.”
Don’t do that.
I manually copied my Firefox profile into the Basilisk profile folder, and it worked fine.
This browser claims to support both, Legacy add-ons and WebExtensions. However many WebExtensions working fine with Firefox 57 are not working properly or simply not even compatible. In addition some Legacy add-ons working fine with Firefox ESR and/or Pale Moon are not fully compatible. In these conditions my opinion is this browser is totally useless and at this stage of development should not even have been released.
where has it been stated that it will support webextensions.?
limks and proof please.
In Martin’s article, it says:
But the web browser supports WebExtensions as well. Support is experimental right now, and some WebExtension APIs that are Mozilla-specific may not be supported yet.
This new project by Moonchild is still in beta. It has a great potential, aiming at an almost complete replacement for those who don’t like latest Mozilla steps.
Palemoon is still my favourite, in this comments section I read the usual uninformed posts: for palemoon to work like the good fox of old you have you install the addons that are available on a separate URL fro the Palemoon site tab.
Basilisk has many features available at install, while Palemoon needs some tweaking for an optimal usability. I’ll keep an eye on Basilisk development.
well, certainly it’s new for me and it worth a try! ;)
i’m a huge fan of Pale Moon for a very long time and i always use it as my default browser on every pc i use. unfortunately, the android version of it did not satisfied me enough to use it on my cell phone to. on my phone, i use UC Browser. now, i certaynli will give try on this new version in my PC and hope it’s quit as good as the current one!
This is not a new version of Pale Moon, it’s a different browser – and as mentioned it’s in beta status.
Basilisk is just a customized build of Firefox with a few changes (getting rid of bad stuff like telemetry), and of course rebranding. Easier to do that than make PM run on it. The main focus is on the back end code which can be used by different applications if there is a demand. Keeping XUL going past the end of Fx52ESR is a major goal of the underlying platform development. Basilisk will keep the Australis user interface, but PM won’t adopt it, although either can be made to resemble the other.
After the initial snafu, I’ve got most everything I want installed and setup from scatch even w/o CTR so far. So it looks like it really can be a replacement for Fx52 next year.
The article doesn’t address the obvious questions.
Why build Basilisk when they have Pale Moon? How is Basilisk different from Pale Moon.
And why leave pre-57 Firefox?
PaleMoon is a “legacy” browser of pre-Australis era with “security patches”. (It is not a critic), I like Autralis UX + option with Classic Theme Restorer on Firefox 52 ESR or WaterFox, so I don’t use PaleMoon, but I respect a lot that work.
Basilisk is a early-2017 Firefox 52 ESR (pre-Servo, Rust) with legacy addons support, oriented to “XUL platform” development, it is like “snapshot” of Firefox 52 (I don’t know about security patches), I think Basilisk will be as “eternal Firefox 52 ESR” with security patches”, no addition of “features” and solid ecosystem, for some legacy addons.
WaterFox could collaborate on XUL with Basilisk project, on future.
For pre-57 Firefox (Firefox 56 for example), WaterFox is the project, WaterFox 56 ESR is nearly complete (as we can se here):
https://twitter.com/Waterfoxproject/status/931963434761183237
XUL platform is used by great apps like Zotero, ThunderBird, etc, so is not “dinosaur” and must be improved, for people to have “Freedom on Choice”.
XUL for me is important, maybe is not “fastest” but is extendable, customizable and addons is something great, as I said I use Chromium, Opera or Chrome too, Firefox and I tested Firefox Quantum, I am not for “brainLess speed” or “performance only” argument…
As I said in this “thread” on Reddit, performance depends on more things, like cache, and IOPs on HDD etc
https://www.reddit.com/r/waterfox/comments/7cwz2l/firefox_or_waterfox_performance_custom_user/
WebExtensions are lightweight (at least at the moment), so are not “replacement”, are a “good experiment” but extension of XUL (both have to “live and work together”)
Moonchild – devs of palemoon – are very capable and a little sectarian. Palemoon has a suboptimal vibe in many comments. Sadly, this is a trend and it’s very wrong, coming out of people who didn’t care to look at palemoon site and forum.
This Basilisk is based on Goanna rendering engine like Palemoon, but goes one step beyond Palemoon by forking the Mozilla code base (that uses Servo or Rust) and building on the Unified XUL Platform (UXP), another interesting Moonchild idea. I fully support Moonchild – we need more of devs like it – beyond their minimal social presence and the undeserved negative comments Palemoon always receives online. I get the best font rendering on PM (thanks to Goanna) and greatly admire Moonchild efforts.
@Doh!, biased, undocumented comments like yours are becoming older than Netscape Navigator code. No one really pays attention to them, people can try and decide for themselves.
As opposed to your undocumented reply, genius? If you dont know Palemoon is based on FF24 code you literally don’t know the first thing about it and are just demonstrating your ignorance to the world.
“people can try and decide for themselves”
Yes they can run FF24 side by side with Palemoon as I have done and see their performance is the same. One of the many reasons I switched to waterfox.
Just out of curiosity, did you even notice that the version numbers of Palemoon started at 24? Did you bother to think why? Did you notice apart from the colour/logo the default interface is identical?
Even some cursory reading at the Palemoon forum would have told you the answer and everything I have said is easily verifiable by anyone because they are facts, not some cheerleaders opinion.
Palemoon is based on FF24 – it is ancient code, failing on more and more websites. Stubborn though he is even moonchild has had to admit Palemoon is obsolete and switched to a post Australis version of Firefox which he said over and over he would NEVER do.
Palemoon has many ignorant cheerleaders who haven’t run it against old Firefox for comparison. It is virtually identical. Now Basilisk is the same idea but based on a later Firefox.
They are not new code. Mozilla wrote >99% of the code he uses.
Thanks to PaleMoon team, for saving this, and community and people working on saving and preserving valuable and feature rich legacy addons (XUL based), from AMO
Basilisk, PaleMoon and WaterFox, as Firefox forks with XUL legacy support, for people like me, who want Freedom of Choice, Free Will, beyond impositions…
I am web developer and programmer I use Chromium based and I tested Firefox Quantum, I am not on “Performance only” argument purging everything I can customize, brainless speed is not for me…
And I am not “a dinosaur”, honestly, the “reinventing the wheel” is not for me, I am not “alpha tester”, I want stable feature rich customization environment, not “visionary dreams” bad planning and “bad defined stuff”.
I running now, solid Firefox 52 ESR build with my own config and customization and great addons, is fast and it is great, I am using it now, perfectly.
Thanks to community and efforts on webArchiving XPI files and the creation of “alternative” repository for legacy addons beyond AMO. (it is a WIP), see PaleMoon community or Reddit posts on r/WaterFox or r/Firefox
About Security and “updates” if more people “join” and collaborate with Palemoon team and WaterFox, XUL powered forks will work great and updated and we working all together make the web great… because we improve the offer of choice, beyond “limitations”, people will use what they want… not what Mozilla wants.
People are are specific minorities of users who need “specific features” and customization…
We are not a brainless majority of humans with “the same trivial needs” of “fast performance” as possible purging everything that works, features are heavier than “lightweight browser”, it is as simply as that.
“We are not a brainless majority of humans with “the same trivial needs” of “fast performance” as possible purging everything that works, features are heavier than “lightweight browser”, it is as simply as that.”
+1
I had decided to keep Firefox 52 ESR until next summer and will probably keep using it for now, but out of curiosity I installed Basilisk yesterday. After the first run (to create a profile folder) I simply copied the entire contents of my Firefox profile folder into the Basilisk profile folder, overwriting any same-named files already there.
The end result was just great: Basilisk running just like Firefox, with all add-ons (so indeed it’s better than Pale Moon, where some add-ons fail due to the different UI setup). And so far, it’s running without any glitches or bugs that I could notice. In fact, when running Firefox and Basilisk alongside, loading the same pages, the only difference I can see is the taskbar button: both windows, including what’s in the top bars and side bar, look completely identical.
If the Moonchild people manage to keep providing necessary security updates for Basilisk in the long run, it may well become an excellent long-term replacement for Firefox ESR. I certainly will be keeping an eye on it!
Good choice on the profile to use!! I tried to use a profile from v55 and it didn’t work that well for me. I do have a profile for 52.5 ESR but didn’t try it thinking that the whole point of Basilisk is to at some point be a somewhat similar choice as Waterfox and it’s not there yet. Just my opinion. I’m sure it will be in the future, I’m hoping it will be anyway.
Does this browser have the recent FF patch includd that speeds up loading/starting the browser with lots of tabs?
Just found this on their forum:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17407
So it seems to be an early 2017 version and thus useless.
…the chaff from the wheat ???
What Jody Thornton said.
This change with loading with many tabs was one of the best patches ever for how I use my browser, since I have a lot of open tabs.
I don’t see why a post needs to be constructive, I’m telling you facts here, without this I don’t see any reason to use this instead of my FF56 nightly.
But sadly I don’t see much chance for any of those forks, as with the new css engine and later on other parts of the gecko engine being replaced – even in a different programming language than today – these forks cannot longer just copy patches over. And since they lack the manpower, there won’t be any relevant development I think.
Which sucks, because FF57 – or better WE – is also useless for me.
@Browsocrator:
I think he means useless as in “Basilisk should contain all of the goodness prior to v57, so dispensing with pretty much everything introduced this year seems to be starting from farther back than you need to”.
Look at the Alex camp over at Waterfox. They’ll include Servo speed improvements in Waterfox v56, plus all of the improvements right up to Firefox v56. Plus Waterfox sticks to a current and working Gecko engine, while Goanna brings with it site incompatibilities and the need to spoof other browser versions. Seems Waterfox is the one to bet on.
Time For a song I think: (Come on! sing along – to the tune of “Oh Suzanna”)
Oh Go-Anna
Don’t you cry for me,
I can only render sites that work with
Fire-Fox Version Three!
Oh Go-Anna
Seems like such risk,
When a site don’t work – I feel like a jerk
for choosing Bas-i-Lisk. (Laaaa Laaaaaaaaaaaaa!)
Nice constructive post, really
Feel free to scout for absolutely needed features from this:
https://www.ghacks.net/2017/01/04/whats-in-store-for-firefox-in-2017/
To me, a comment saying USELESS should at least tell me why.
Careful guys, don’t mess with Basilisk!
From Wikipedia:
“In European bestiaries and legends, a basilisk is a legendary reptile reputed to be King of serpents and said to have the power to cause death with a single glance.”
I’m not quite sure why a dedicated GPU would be necessary to run a browser? Also, 1 Gigabyte of RAM as a minimum recommended? Sounds more like a game than a browser.
I was surprised by the dedicated GPU also and 1GB of ram? If/when multi-process gets enabled will 1GB be enough? ;)
@Jody Thornton
Good! We actually saw the same things. Instead of messing with the process count I spent entirely too much time playing with css.
Well I did enable 7 processes instead of the default four. To me, turning off e10s seemed to improve speed of sites launched from bookmarks and the new tab page. But rendering was faster in each tab with e10s on going from site to site.
@jJody Thornton
Wow, I never saw that in any Nightlies. I always let them use what they wanted by default. Well… the majority of the time anyway. ;)
Exactly. When I enabled e10s back on the Nightlies, it used near 4 GB or RAM just for about seven or eight tabs. Yikes.
I think he wants to focus on hardware acceleration and perhaps (just thinking out loud here), perhaps he wants to recapture some of the speed increase that Basilisk will lose from not going with Servo.
Good news, but being that Basilisk is experimental/beta and questionably lacks what it takes to move forward, I’m not going to fuss with it for now. For security, speed, and stability, I’ve moved on with Firefox Quantum with Opera as my #2. They provide most all the extensions/functions I like, except for Downthemall!, but a compatible/stable “lite” version of DTA should be out circa 2018. Until then, I’ll just keep using IDA and/or WinWGet.
Is there a reason for them not to join forces with Waterfox?
Because MoonChild is a control freak whose idea of co-operation is “everyone do what I say”. Look at his forums you’ll see dozens of examples like the one mentioned by an anonymous below. He calls for ideas/feedback – Criticises every suggestion that doesn’t align with his predecision – Then does what he was going to do anyway – Then bitches and moans that no-one will join his dev team
His attitude sunk PaleMoon and if he doesn’t change I bet it will sink Basilisk. This is a shame because I would be on board for coding a FF52 fork. Seriously stop trying to reinvent the wheel and just spend a year doing bug fixes. That would create a solid base for future work.
Alex is taking a smarter approach but if he goes down the multiprocessor route it’ll all go pearshaped. 100Mb to hold 1 page is absolutely ridiculous as is having fifty processes all named firefox.exe.
Here’s hoping common sense will prevail.
@DOH!
er what a load of babble.
i have used palemoon for a very long time and i have always found moonchild to be friendly and intelligent with his advice.If i have ever had a problem with palemoon i have always received courteous advice.
Maybe it was you who had the attitude and judging from your post this very easily could be the case.
@Kubrick
You get decent treatment from Moonchild because you either agree with him or praise him. But DARE you ever disagree with anything they do, Moonchild, Matt and all of his fanboy users will shit on ya. I have ALREADY shown examples of this, and so have many many others.
When you defend Moonchild, all you reveal is fanboyish and blind faith-like behaviour.
I just read the mentioned thread and have to confirm, yes, Doh!, you are right. As a reaction to Arnaud’s answer he just insults him in very pissed manner, and that’s all. If he was one of my team leaders (I am capo dei capi :-), I’d kick him out because he is not a team player and will never be one.
@Arnaud: You were completely right. I heard of the basilisk browser today, felt, what you told him before even reading your post. I tried to leave a comment on the insults.
I do not know MoonChild and I discover Pale Moon and Basiliks, but after a reading of https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15757, I think you are right. No one wanted Basiliks as name (crap name) and finally… I left a message about that with suggestions. Finally, I think Waterfox has more luky for the future. The name is smart, keeps a reference to Firefox and I think that WebExpensions it’s the future. I’m ok with that if I can still use XUL extensions for a while and can find more powerfull WebExtensions in the future.
But, do you know if Alex Kontos is still the only developer on his project? I prefer a team…
That’s what I don’t get. I really think Moonchild wants to be the sole benefactor of this effort to save the old Firefox. From what I recalled reading, Moochild felt their philosphies were different, however Alex seemed on board with the idea.
I’m completely agree with Alex too!
As far as I know, the Waterfox considers his ver. 56 with security patches of future versions only to be a temporary solution. Eventually, he intends to expand the WebExtensions APIs to a greater level, so that powerful add-ons become possible once more, now within the new system. The Pale Moon developer, on the other hand, prefers to keep XUL/XPCOM “indefinitely”, that is, as long as he is feasible to maintain it. Since Moonchild has been forced to rebase his product in the past, as he couldn’t keep up with the huge development team at Mozilla (no offense, he is a capable developer, but regularly bites more than he could possibly chew), my bet would be on the Waterfox dev, who plans to follow Mozilla and extend Firefox’s capabilities at the same time. They have different concepts, and cooperation is neither useful nor necessary in that case.
I got the opposite impression, that Alex was willing to let go of the Firefox update train because he wants the “modern stuff (Alex is young). I gave up on updating WF.
Got that same api error with Basilisk but I probably won’t like it anyway. :)
Bad mouth.. he tried to be “democratic” there â–¼
Pale Moon’s users trying to help:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=15757
The result:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15984&p=116272
â–º Basilisk
Who wonders why I did not participate?
Moonchild has a very high opinion of himself, so will probably want all the glory to himself. I would not be surprised if his ultimate goal is to push out Waterfox.
Agreed Alex :)
I believe that Alex Kontos and Moonchild should find a way to merge Waterfox and Basilisk.
The XUL-supporting browsers’ market share is small enough as it is, and if the fragmentation due to this this childish insistence on “philosophy” results in incompatibilities, it will just turn addon writers away and both platforms will stagnate and die.
There was an offer to join forces – the Waterfox developer rejected it.
Just waiting for an Arch linux AUR package to be created to test this.
I’m not sure I understand their website correctly.
But, does this mean that Palemoon will switch to Pre-57 interface/ui, or will they keep the pre-australis interface (the ribbon one), when Palemoon switches to UXP in 2018?
It’s all over PMs forums . . . Pale Moon’s UI will not change if/when the switch comes.
You need to see Pale Moon and Basilisk as two separate projects for now. There is a chance that Pale Moon will switch to Basilisk eventually, but that is no given it seems.
I really like Firefox 57 (or Quantum or whatever Mozilla wants to call it). Firefox is finally a fast, well performing browser once again (in my experience with it). Previous recent versions were slow and gobbled up RAM. I’ve actually stopped using Chrome ever since I started using the Firefox 57 alphas.
My question about Pale Moon and this Basilisk browser is, what are users of this browser going to do when extension devs stop maintaining the old XUL-based versions of their extensions in favor of the new WebExtensions? They’re going to be stuck with old, unmaintained extensions. I just don’t see how this works out for them in the long run.
Pale Moon add-ons team is working toward hosting all Legacy add-ons on their own site. As well Waterfox devs are also working toward this.
@ Jody Thornton: “But then who updates those add-ons? After some time, you’ll just be using old inscure add-ons, no?”
Software is not milk, it doesn’t go bad automatically after some time. In fact, it is frequently updating software that is usually most at risk since new code introduces not only new features, but new potential bugs and security holes as well.
Older software is risk-prone too (nothing isn’t) but well-tested, well-coded established programs are most often safer to use than constantly changing, and thus unpredictable ones.
And again, let us not forget about those extension developers who have abandoned Firefox “Quantum” (well, FF abandoned them to be precise) and continue to support and update their perfectly working “legacy” versions.
I meant “no” at the end of the question ….lol
But then who updates those add-ons? After some time, you’ll just be using old inscure add-ons, mo?
That’s my concern. I’ll run Pale Moon until replace my current box, and then move to Quantum full time.
Tab Mix Plus 5.4 and dev not compatible (FF customization window not opening)
All-in-one sidebar not working and Good ‘ol Sidebar not compatible. Hope they will add a dedicated add-ons page. In waiting I’ll keep Pale Moon as my primary browser.
Now that palemoon supports legacy extensions,…
Where will we be able to find them once Firefox no longer makes them available? Will all 16000 addons be available through the palemoon website or if not where?
Hopefully firefox will have the foresight to make them permanently available to all by uploading them to archive.org(software) or similar.
“Where will we be able to find them once Firefox no longer makes them available? Will all 16000 addons be available through the palemoon website or if not where?”
Here: https://www.ghacks.net/2017/11/10/firefox-classic-add-ons-archive/
Try adding “/versions” to the add-on’s page .. it’s still there, just hidden by Mozilla :)
* tested on a theme, should probably work for add-ons too.
Pale Moon also has it’s own add-on repository on their site.
I installed and uninstalled it already. Useragent was Firefox55/Basilisk whatever. Did a clean install then after I saw it had a FFv55 useragent I tired a couple different Waterfox v55 profiles I have. A proper install with extensions would have been useful, sorry. Similar to WF in performance but one time the scrolling felt good and the next time it did not. But then I just threw a couple old profiles in there for grins.
A clean install felt like an alpha build to me, could not get the new preferences page to work, it does in Waterfox. There is no performance section in the preferences but you can enable multi-process in about:config which seemed to mostly work but a couple times a tab wouldn’t render properly. Below is what I use in Waterfox, prelaunch in not working in Basilisk.
dom.ipc.processCount.web=2
dom.ipc.processPrelaunch.enabled=true
extensions.e10sBlocksEnabling=false
Richard Allen, you keep mentioning the “Electrolysis-e10” feature (“you can enable multi-process”, “it’s not ready yet”, “it’s hidden but disabled”) and one wonders if you read these articles before commenting.
It is clearly mentioned both in this Ghacks article and the browser’s official website that this feature is *not* supported/included.
I have to ask, because I keep wondering, where did all those quotes that you tried to attribute to me come from? Two of them “Electrolysis-e10” and “it’s hidden but disabled” were only ever said on this page by You. One wonders! :-D
I also mentioned that I used a couple Waterfox profiles. When I did I immediately noticed multiple processes in the Windows Task Manager, I then investigated. Deal with it! :-D
I have Windows Task Manager and GPU-Z pinned to the Taskbar because I actually use them.
I took it as that he experimented with e10s anyway and got it working, no? Albeit not so stable.
So multi-process code isn’t removed, it just doesn’t appear in the options and it is set to globally disabled in its dedicated about:config settings. I thought it had been totally removed.
1. Correct
2. No.
Multi-process was working for me using the above entries. Not exactly reliably but it is a development build. I don’t think some of the extensions like Tampermonkey were working from what I saw in the menu but then I was using Waterfox profiles. I only had it installed for 30-40 minutes. I’ll give it another shot when multi-process is enabled by default. ;)
I guess some people prefer to live in some imaginary past, it offer them a sense of security, certainty and above all a (false) sense of control. it is for sure a form of tech escapism.
Here we have a prime example of that, these Palemoon folks and their loyal followers try to recreate the 2000s and the Glory days of Mozilla/Phoenix/Firefox where everything was pure, ethical and idealistic
as a proof of all the above is the following verse
Mozilla: In Memoriam
Dedicated to the tireless developers who have come and gone.
To those who have put their heart and soul into Mozilla products.
To those who have seen their good intentions and hard work squandered.
To those who really cared about the user, and cared about usability.
To those who truly understood us and desired freedom, but were unheard.
To those who knew that change is inevitable, but loss of vision is not.
To those who were forced to give up the good fight.
Thank you. Pale Moon would not have been possible without you.
…and?
Do you like giving out privacy for alleged Google security?
Do you like WebExt over add-ons?
Like many other comments, you spit misinformation without knowing what you’re tlaking about. By forking Servo, this browser takes a step away from Mozilla new features that you appear to love so much.
And…… Your point being? Some people just want to keep what they are comfortable with. What’s wrong with that?
I have been using the Windows XP version found in http://www.msfn.org/board/topic/177125-my-build-of-new-moon-temp-name-aka-pale-moon-for-xp/?page=12 It seems pretty stable and worked right away with a copy of my Firefox 52 profile so I was able to be up and running in minutes. You can find the profile on Windows XP at C:\Documents and Settings\UserName\Application Data\Moonchild Productions\Basilisk\Profiles changing UserName to your actual login name.
One thing Martin, it seems to render your site slightly differently than Firefox. I tried changing the User Agent with no effect.
One last note, I read it is based on the Firefox 55 code base.
Palemoon for XP is on the official site.
“Windows XP or Windows Vista are not supported”
https://www.basilisk-browser.org/requirements.shtml
“Uses Goanna as a layout and rendering engine. Goanna behaves slightly differently than Gecko in certain respects and may result in different display of web pages. e.g.: Goanna renders gradients in a more accurate color space (non-premultiplied).”
https://www.basilisk-browser.org/features.shtml
Your right the official version does not support the older operating systems. However if you had taken the time to look at the link I sent you would find that it is a custom recompile specific for use on older operating systems. And yes it does indeed work.
BTW you should install the Microsoft Visual C Redistributable for Visual Studio 2017. You can find the downloads at https://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Forums/vstudio/en-US/e653a57a-bc32-4134-87bf-df33058f0531/download-microsoft-visual-c-2017-redistributable?forum=vssetup
“It should be considered more or less “beta” at all times; it may have some bugs and is provided as-is, with potential defects.”
This is probably due to thousands of bugs never fixed by Mozilla ;)
Testing, testing. :-)
Wow. Like good old (I mean, a few weeks old) Firefox. Just changed a few settings, imported bookmarks and installed uMatrix, it seems to be a properly good and lightweight (compared to new FF) browser. What a nice surprise. I’ll definitely keep an eye on it.
Since you’re testing this first version of Basilisk browser can I ask you what is its User Agent string?
Thanks, Marcin
Spoofing as Firefox 55
Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:55.0) Gecko/20100101 Goanna/4.0 Firefox/55.0 Basilisk/20171112
Was it any faster than Firefox ESR?
It was faster than I remember Firefox lately, but it could be because it was a fresh install.
Yes, about the same as Waterfox but multi-process in Basilisk isn’t really ready for prime time yet.
I’m apparently missing a Visual Studio component, so it won’t run. (some api-ms-win-crt….on and on filename) .dll
But isn’t it BASICALLY Firefox ESR – except on Goanna?
^^ edit: api-ms-win-core* AND api-ms-win-crt*
I use FF portable, which has “../App/Firefox” (32bit) and “../App/Firefox64” directories – in there are the 40 “api-ms-win-core*” files (this change from MS re CRT was about a year ago I think)
I would bring it up with moonchild, to make sure it’s properly integrated
Tried it and it’s ok but slow, in some cases very slow.
Great, I want to know about this one aspect: speed. Martin didn’t even bothered to touch on this subject in his article.
I think I’ll stay with Quantum, it’s really fast!
And do I hear correctly that it supports DRM?
Basilisk currently supports DRM, though it’s off by default.
….
If the coming Basilisk Stable does not include DRM/EME support, come June 2018, I will likely be moving from FF 52ESR to Chrome or Cyberfox because I like to stream web-videos, esp TV shows. Eg Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Videos, Pay-per-view boxing matches, etc.
… Millions of web-surfers like to stream such videos which testify to the worldwideweb/www popularity of the Chrome browser.
I think it is only fair for web-media content owners to impose DRM/EME for those who would like to pay to stream their contents from the Web, similar to people buying downloadable and digitally-protected songs at Apple iTunes or paying subscriptions to M$ to use “DRM-protected” Office 365. This kind of DRM-protection by web-media content owners is very different from the unfair DRM-protection imposed by movie studios on hardware like Bluray players, Bluray discs, etc.
I do not understand why Free-Open-source browser developers are so against web-content media owners imposing DRM-protection against non-paying web-surfers which is similar to a novelist imposing copyright-protection against non-paying pirates and copiers. Maybe, they want to also access Netflix videos for free, like for Youtube videos.
According to this link, … https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=17388 , DRM/EME support may likely not be included in the coming Basilisk Stable.
Seems, DRM/EME support is only available at the moment in the very new Basilick Beta because Basilisk Beta was developed based off Firefox 55, which had DRM/EME support.
…
How do you turn on DRM in Basilisk.?
In Firefox 52ESR, you just click a button to turn on DRM, which is off by default.
Yes, Basilisk supports DRM playback
So Moonchild doesn’t think that Firefox 57 performs well? Er, has he even tried it?
According to this May 2017 post by Moonchild at the Palemoon forum, Basilisk does not support DRM, …
pdf.js is an extension integrated in the application front-end, so Basilisk will have it.
MacOS code: as usual, Mac OSX will need someone with both the hardware and the knowledge. So the platform will have the code but it needs a maintainer.
DRM isn’t possible because both Adobe and WideVine need a client-side API key. Even so, I won’t include it in Basilisk because DRM still has no place in a web browser. Here, too, the platform will have the code for other applications to make use of, but will be unmaintained.
e10s will theoretically be an option, but Basilisk will not exercise it, and depending on stability and performance it may be disabled permanently in the platform. I need only look at how the latest versions of Firefox perform (or rather not perform) to know that it’s still problematic even after years of a full dev team plugging at it. So probably best to just leave it, and focus on stability.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
Cyberfox supports DRM.
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Re: UXP browser voting results + issue
Quote
Postby Moonchild » Thu May 25, 2017 9:38 am
Pale as the Moon wrote:
Now does anbody bother to answer the questions I had asked in my last comment? And one additional question: Will the new browser support e10s?
pdf.js is an extension integrated in the application front-end, so Basilisk will have it.
MacOS code: as usual, Mac OSX will need someone with both the hardware and the knowledge. So the platform will have the code but it needs a maintainer.
DRM isn’t possible because both Adobe and WideVine need a client-side API key. Even so, I won’t include it in Basilisk because DRM still has no place in a web browser. Here, too, the platform will have the code for other applications to make use of, but will be unmaintained.
e10s will theoretically be an option, but Basilisk will not exercise it, and depending on stability and performance it may be disabled permanently in the platform. I need only look at how the latest versions of Firefox perform (or rather not perform) to know that it’s still problematic even after years of a full dev team plugging at it. So probably best to just leave it, and focus on stability.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _
According to this post by Moonchild at forumdotpalemoondotorg, Basilisk does not support DRM.
Cyberfox supports DRM.
If true, that’s great news for many Firefox 52ESR users who will then be able to move to Basilisk Stable, ie before June 2018 – the EOL of FF 52ESR.
Firefox, in short is FF, eg FF 57.
Basilisk, in short, is BSL, eg BSL 57.?
.
Will there be a similar “rising of the Basilisk” for Win 7 users, ie to replace Win 10, come its EOL in 2020.?