Re-based Basilisk Browser released - gHacks Tech News

Re-based Basilisk Browser released

A new version of the Basilisk web browser was released last week which the development team described as a re-fork and re-based version.

Basilisk is a XUL-based web browser that is developed by the team behind the Pale Moon browser. It uses the Goanna rendering engine which is a fork of Firefox's Gecko rendering engine and is based on the Unified XUL Platform (UXP) which is a fork of Firefox code without some of the technologies that Mozilla implemented in recent time.

Mozilla dropped XUL for the most part with the release of Firefox 57The first public version of Basilisk was released in November 2017.

The release of Basilisk caused some confusion among Pale Moon users and other users; would Pale Moon be replaced by Basilisk eventually?

Basilisk and Pale Moon are two different browsers. The development team describes Basilisk as a "reference application for development of the XUL platform".

basilisk browser

A re-forked and re-based UXP version of Basilisk browser was released on April 24, 2018. Moonchild, lead developer of the project, revealed on the Pale Moon forum that the released version is the "final incarnation of UPX that will be carried from here forward as a basis for Basilisk".

If you run a check you will notice the version is returned as Firefox 52 ESR, the last Firefox ESR release before Mozilla's extended support release for Firefox is switched over to new technologies and code that are incompatible with previous versions.

The development team released two bugfix releases in the days that followed the release of the new version of Basilisk.

When you run Basilisk right now, you will notice that it behaves pretty much like Firefox 52.x ESR. The browser features the same design and compatibility tests on sites such as HTML5Test return similar (pretty good) results.

Probably the most interesting aspect for Firefox users right now is that Basilisk supports legacy Firefox add-ons and NPAPI plugins whereas the next Firefox ESR version and current Firefox Stable builds don't.

Basilisk is offered  as a portable version and installer so that you may test it on Windows and Linux machines to see how compatible it is. The source code is also available.

Now You: What is your primary browser?

Related articles

Summary
Re-based Basilisk Browser released
Article Name
Re-based Basilisk Browser released
Description
A new version of the Basilisk web browser was released last week which the development team described as a re-fork and re-based version.
Author
Publisher
Ghacks Technology News
Logo

We need your help

Advertising revenue is falling fast across the Internet, and independently-run sites like Ghacks are hit hardest by it. The advertising model in its current form is coming to an end, and we have to find other ways to continue operating this site.

We are committed to keeping our content free and independent, which means no paywalls, no sponsored posts, no annoying ad formats or subscription fees.

If you like our content, and would like to help, please consider making a contribution:

Comments

  1. Kubrick said on April 29, 2018 at 3:38 pm

    I have been using this browser for a few weeks now and it runs just fine.I can install some old themes which i thought were dead and buried and it looks fabulous.Obviously with this being an ongoing browser there could be some minor bugs,but overall my experience with this has been very pleasant and i appreciate that moonchild has given us another option for us diehard old looking fans.
    I like where they are going with this and i for one am enjoying the ride.

  2. Anonymous said on April 29, 2018 at 4:13 pm

    Last time I tried it I was not even able to install recent versions of uMatrix, useless browser to me.

  3. hacksg said on April 29, 2018 at 4:23 pm

    Still no up2date firefox rebase and i think no webextension addon support? So still a total useless browser.

    Also they dont give a fu** about community and users: https://github.com/jasperla/openbsd-wip/issues/86

    1. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 5:00 pm

      Quantum is a browser without UI customization, especially when userchrome.css gets erased.

      Webextensions are lame add-ons which can not change anything more deeper rooted inside the browsers mechanics. So, Firefox is a totally useless browser in the opinion of all the Firefox users who want to have a fully customizable browser.

      Basilisk works good enough for customization loving people and people in general who are not interested in Mozillas Chrome cult followers which calling themselves “developers”

      1. hacksg said on April 29, 2018 at 6:04 pm

        This is bullshi*. You can customize the UI. Also userchrome.css isnt erased.
        Dont spread stuff like that if you dont know what youre talking about.

        Also you dont know what Webextensions are realy, doesnt you? They are not lame. If addons like uBlock Origin, uMatrix, Decentraleyes works and hell, even have more power then as not-Webextensions then thats lame? Lol, sure.

      2. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 6:11 pm

        @hacksg

        Really? Look on Google for the reddit article “wontfix_the_future_of_userchromecontent” – look up this bug in Bugzilla.

        Userchrome.css is in the future on the chopping block.

        Also WE’s are lame. None of them can change stuff which was possible with Classic Theme restorer. That is called customization. What can be done now – is inferior.

        Better look up for the facts before you speak uninformed nonsense.

        Let me post you a nice comment:

        – Kris Maglione Comment 3 • 3 months ago

        Not supported means that we will not actively support it, yes.

        This isn’t a new stance. These are undocumented features that happen to still work, but are no longer part of any official customization system. The functionality of userContent.css can mostly be duplicated using extension APIs. The functionality of userChrome.css will not be supported, for the same reasons that we removed support for legacy themes.

        Support will probably be completely removed from Firefox in the future, yes, but there are no immediate plans to do so.

      3. lord lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 7:47 pm

        @Vakarian Ya got it right, boyo! Customization in Firefox will eventually cease to exist.. and for what? For the Google crowd!

      4. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 6:11 pm

        Sorry, i forgot to add the Bugzilla bug-number: 1431962

      5. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 6:14 pm

        @hacksg Webextensions have no access to the deeper enclosed roots of the browser, you can touch web-content, but not more.

        So, Webextensions are far less powerful as compared to XUL extensions.

        Also, get your fact straight in that matter. Same like full themes are more powerful than Personas or whatever themes are called today by Mozilla.

      6. hacksg said on April 29, 2018 at 6:22 pm

        @Vakarian: Yes, webextension have less access to the browser because of security reasons. But as i say, the addons work and with webextension you got signed addons.

      7. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 6:27 pm

        @hacksg

        Not security reasons.

        Here for the dense among us…. Mozilla… wants.. their… Chrome-users… back!

        If you really believe that Mozilla does something for security only… well… tough noogies! Mozilla only cares for 2 things today most:

        Market share numbers and money.

        So, everything what can be customized and is seen as “bloat” by simple users has to go.

      8. lord lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 7:49 pm

        @Vakarian As that would actually come as a surprise. That is all the driving force Mozilla has to offer these days.

        Greed… that is the only department in which Mozilla is landing blow after blow!

      9. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 6:46 pm

        @hacksg You know why i know that? Because i am an ex-power user who would actually argue today in the same way. I would never use a browser with customization features these days. So, i prefer developers who create bare-bone browsing experiences.

        Actually the reason why is also interesting. Here, i am that open to tell you:

        —–

        “Stayed with Firefox 24 for 2 years and i even attacked a friend of mine who told me that customization is not relevant today as the user demands have changed. Needlessly to say, that day i lost my best friend.

        That was waking me up – i changed attitude and today i am using Chrome and… what for a surprise – have the same opinion of that ex friend of mine – he was totally right and i have thrown a great friendship away because i was so dedicated in what was not worth at all the effort.”
        —–

        That is the way simple users think. Features are bloat and unwanted and they would never use a browser with massive customization like Firefox once had!

        The only difference between me and other simple guys is that i have been a power user in the past so i acknowledge the need of such guys and can still relate somewhat to them and i would always defend their needs for features, even if i see no reason anymore for features like that personally.

        And me and all the other simple users is what Mozilla is interested in today. So, why i am not switching back? Because Mozilla is a traitorous developer who is not willing to show a little bit respect towards their own power users who are still around or the ones who have left already because they had enough! And i am not willing and not interested to put my faith towards guys like that.

      10. lord lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 7:50 pm

        @Vakarian Beating someone over customization? Now that is a hell of a deep hole you have been digging for yourself!

      11. Lord Lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 9:57 pm

        @Vakarian But.. why not accepting that it was wrong you did and you have overreacted and why not making peace with features and customization again?

        I mean, you fell from one rather extreme situation into another rather extreme situation. If i would be you, i would come back to the land of power-users. Customization offers you so much.

        Just think about it!

      12. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 4:56 pm

        @Vakarian One thing for sure – There is not much left of the moral side of FOSS inside Mozilla.

        They are only called FOSS because you are still allowed to get and compile the code and re brand it.

        But other than that… They are no longer the moral FOSS instance they have been in the past.

      13. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 6:56 pm

        @Farid le fleur with that pal, you hit the nail on the head.

        Whatever Mozilla had of high morals, there is almost nothing left today.

    2. Kubrick said on April 29, 2018 at 5:44 pm

      @hacksg.
      You do realise it is a fairly new browser and should not be considered a final product.
      Are you aware of that as your comment is useless.

      Damn a browser will not allow the install of one extension….the world is coming to an end lol.

      Have you raised an issue on their forum by any chance.?..but i suspect you have not and would rather bitch and moan here.
      I find it annoying that people with prior knowledge of this browsers development stage still insist on complaining that this and that does not install or something does not work.
      Go on to the forum and inform yourselves of the browser.

      1. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 5:50 pm

        @Kubrick In one thing they are right. Basilisk will never be Firefox 57 and onwards (“Still no up2date”) – but as long as security fixes can be backported, well… then it is not that bad in my opinion.

        But if a product is because of that useless – that is debatable and depends on the personal view – depending what you want of a product. If it is also useless because of no inferior and simplistic web-extensions (only the Web-app technology of Google makes really complex add-ons possible, which was not adopted by Mozilla) is also highly debatable.

        Anyway, still no reason to be insulting.

      2. hacksg said on April 29, 2018 at 6:09 pm

        Basilisk isnt new and its Final! Or did you read “beta” in the news or at Pale Moon forum? No? No!

        Also dont bitch here.
        I was many years a Pale Moon users, beta tester and maybe know the browser Basilisk before you read.

        And just to give you, as troll, more food:
        Not only one addon doesnt work. Any Webextension addon doesnt work and only the old, unsecure addon system works in Pale Moon and Basilisk. Basilisk only have basic webextension support which is useless if it fails like it does.

        So yes, i open a issue for that and ask Moonchild but he have other ideas then that.

      3. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 6:20 pm

        @hacksg Funny how you call a Chrome user a troll :D I got rid of Firefox after version 24 if i remember correctly, because Mozilla gave a shit for their own classic user base.

        XUL extensions are secure enough. Hey, Webextensions can be the same way abused, which the release of tons of spam extensions on both Mozillas store and Googles store have proved more than true.

        Mozilla wanted to get rid of their old system because they simply want us Chrome users back. That is the reason why they adopted Google technology.

        If you are really that dense to not realize that, then i can not help you.

        You have zero clue. Not about me, not about real customization and not about user choice.

      4. kubrick said on April 29, 2018 at 6:59 pm

        @hacksg.
        Now look here hack.!
        i gave my opinion as a member of a free speaking society and if you do not like my opinion then the fault is with YOU and for the record the state of development of the basilisk code is NOT final and i do not know where you conceived the idea it was.
        Take a good piece of advice,if you do not like the browser then move on peacefully without creating chaos with your pointless and useless bickerings about other peoples opinions.

        Understood?

        Have a good day.

      5. lord lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 7:52 pm

        @Kubrick It is indeed no final product, Pale Moon on UXP will be the final product. And at that point already ages behind the competition in terms of web compatibility.

        But granted, there are people who do not demand much and just use a secondary browser.

    3. Weilan said on April 29, 2018 at 5:57 pm

      I think their point is not to have web extensions. See, they disabled multi-process as well and e10 and other stuff they believe aren’t needed. Basilisk is like using an outdated “Firefox lite” with less features. There is no point in using it. I originally thought that Pale Moon team were cool and their agenda too, but after a while I realized they were nothing more than a joke and so are their “products”.

      I agree that Mozilla’s move to deprecate XUL was harsh and that left many users looking for alternatives, but if the new web extensions ever get back on par, it can be OK. For me, I have no issues, I tried the new Firefox, it’s OK, but it’s not as compatible with websites as Chrome was so I went back to Chrome – it has pepper flash, compatible with every website and I have all the extensions that I will ever need – uBlock Origin and Poper Blocker, the same exist on Firefox so I can use it too if I wanted to, but I don’t want to.

      1. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 6:05 pm

        @Weilan Simple users may not want customization. But because you and others think it is useless, it is a blessing for customization loving persons. Be at least so fair to acknowledge that. What for you guys is useless, is for others a clear “lifesaver ”

        Mozilla will never make their new extension setup as rich as it was before because they are focusing now only on Chrome and simple users only.

        While Pale Moon or projects like Vivaldi or Falkon are creating products for the part of the users who demand more. To demand more is a reasonable wish. And how could it be wrong for the guys who get more because of that small projects being around?

      2. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 11:15 am

        Now Falkon looks very interesting. This is the first I’ve heard about it. Basically the continuation of QupZilla, am I right?

        As for Vivaldi, I know there are a lot of customization options, but as for the UI, isn’t it more like Quantum? I like Quantum (as it is now – maybe not when usrChrome.css is disabled), but I don’t get why those who loathe Quantum, really like Vivaldi. After all, it’s more Chrome than Quantum is.

      3. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 11:27 am

        @Jody Thornton Falkon is nice..

        But all qt products have a serious Windows issue. No support out of the box for proprietary video codecs.

        So, under Windows your video playback abilities are rather crippled, if you do not compile qt on your own with support for this commercial codecs.

        Sharing such a build would be too dangerous seen from a legal point of view.

      4. Lord Lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 9:36 pm

        @Weilan I personally can not stand customization-less browsers. Google Chrome is the worst. I can not tell you how much horrible i find that browser.

        It is Google’s fault that we lose customization almost everywhere these days, as Google is pushing negative traits like greed, jealousy and only looking towards your dear numbers table – and instead not caring for a perfect user experience where every user is feeling at home and not leftr alone.

        Thanks to Google Chrome Mozilla and Opera have betrayed their own user bases.

        And that is for me less than ok! It is more like infuriating! Why it is all done for simple users today and more demanding user bases are worth nothing at all?

    4. Vann said on April 29, 2018 at 6:00 pm

      Have you read past the first 2 words? Even that should have been enough to take side with the developer in this matter.

      1. Weilan said on April 30, 2018 at 9:54 am

        @Vann Even Firefox Quantum has enough trouble with compatibility on many websites, they are so far behind Chrome, how focusing on an outdated fork of Firefox is anything to side for? Pale Moon still can’t paste screenshots from clipboard and upload them on imgur with Ctrl+V. I’d use Pale Moon if I had 512MB DDR2 or DDR1 RAM, but I have plenty of RAM to run a normal browser. I’ve tried possibly every browser that was currently in development for the past 8 years up till today for Windows and the only ones that stand out at this point are browsers based on Blink, excluding Vivaldi, because it will take them 10 years to push out an actually usable version that doesn’t have allegedly fixed bugs shipped in the official release.

      2. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 11:29 am

        @Weilan I agree, Blink is superior. I really love Vivaldi. Has many features similar to old Firefox releases, as Mozilla still believed in customization.

      3. [email protected] said on April 30, 2018 at 9:38 pm

        Have you tried Otter Browser? It’s attempting to be what Opera would be, now, if they hadn’t screwed us all over and gone all Googly. I rather like it, myself, but still use Opera v12, most of the time.

    5. Moonchild said on April 29, 2018 at 6:17 pm

      If you want to complain about *BSD, read this instead of the troll posts:

      https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=18256&p=134406#p134406

      1. lord lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 7:57 pm

        @Moonchild With all respect, you guys could have still solved that in a more civilized manner. That was way too much.

        Also, you should perhaps be a bit more diplomatic towards other browsers like Brave or Seamonkey – Even if they do not meet your requirements they are far from total garbage.

  4. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 5:06 pm

    While i am not going to use Basilisk – as i am an Ex-Firefox user who has switched to Chrome in the past, i think it is a not that bad alternative for all the ones who do not want a Chrome similar browser like Firefox is becoming.

    But i would wait until that UXP comes to Pale Moon so that people have the old UI with the square tabs back, as Australis was quite much hated by past Firefox power user base.

    The only downside is that there is a NSS implementation issue which prevents that Basilisk is getting TLS 1.3 encryption.

    But i guess that is for all the one’s who like Pale Moon and who like customization first an acceptable price to pay, as there is yet no sign that TLS 1.2 is going to be deprecated very soon.

    Would i say it is recommended for users who are not into customization and more into recent under the hood improvements regarding bleeding edge web-technology drafts…

    In that case – no.

    1. lord lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 7:54 pm

      @Vakarian Fully agreeing.

      Pale Moon has and will never deliver in supporting the latest web standards. And as i believe, that re-fork will still not being able to save them, as their old issues will arrive again.. Not being able to implement upcoming complex web-standards and drafts without future pages will not work at all.

    2. Anonymous said on April 29, 2018 at 8:43 pm

      Agreed with you and lestat. Basilisk was made because Pale Moon broke many sites. If Basilisk don’t evolve like Pale Moon, it will meet the same end.

      I’m not fan of using multiple browsers for browsing internet.

      1. Lord Lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 9:39 pm

        @Anonymous Still it has to be said that many users who want their old classic customization features – which are seen as bloat by the Web2.0 user base of today see Pale Moon as useful and great.

        I see no issue with them using the browser. As long as they are aware that it will most likely not be around for longer time.

      2. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 11:20 am

        It seems to be the same reason for the existence of K-Meleon. Right now a Goanna port is being developed, which looks promising, but I wonder if it will equate to longevity.

  5. Ron said on April 29, 2018 at 5:11 pm

    Well, that’s because the latest versionof uM is webextensions, if you didn’t bother to check it out.

    1. Anonymous said on April 29, 2018 at 7:16 pm

      I guess you answered to my post below about uMatrix of course I check it out!

      http://www.basilisk-browser.org/features.shtml
      Main features: Experimental support for WebExtensions (in gecko-target mode)..

      When the “support for WebExtensions” will stop to be experimental.. well tell me please.

      1. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 8:16 pm

        @Anonymous Web extensions will always be experimental. As that Google collective technology is unwanted by the Pale Moon team and only around because it was already included in the forked code-base.

        Who wants more of that has to deliver patches on their own and contribute on the UXP Github page. As Pale Moon and Basilisk are “community driven” projects.

        That means you want something which is not on the plan, you have to make it happen on your own or find someone who would do that for you.

      2. Martin Brinkmann said on April 29, 2018 at 8:31 pm

        Keep it civil please, I removed two of your comments.

      3. Lord Lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 9:42 pm

        Thanks for delivering finally a great posting experience again Mr. @Martin Brinkmann :)

        But with all due respect, it is also quite mocking if someone calls themselves lolpalemoon – that is also not ok in my opinion. And i am for sure not the only one who would agree with that.

        The same way like it is not ok to humiliate Mozilla more than necessary. What i have done, and for this i offer my apology. It is one thing to show their mistakes and their flaws, but it is another thing to cross a certain line.

        Just saying.

      4. Stefan said on April 30, 2018 at 3:48 am

        Martin, You should make it easier to see who respond to who…. I’m not sure of who You f.ex responded to…. Hopefully something coming some day. Else, thanks for a great site, Martin ! :)

      5. Anonymous said on April 29, 2018 at 8:47 pm

        @Vakarian: Exactly what I said, in that case (with uMatrix) “experimental” means “don’t work”. Useless browser to me.

      6. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 9:14 pm

        @Anonymous well, many people are happy that Pale Moon will have no Webextensions in the future. While i am a Chrome user i do also not like Webextensions. As it is a fact that they are too limited.

        Chrome web-apps – which made Vivaldi possible – are where the real magic is working. But sadly Mozilla has decided to implement the more restrictive Webextensions system. Because they do not want to offer more customization than necessary these days inside their browser.

      7. Lord Lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 9:29 pm

        @Anonymous Pale Moon and Basilisk are mainly meant for the crowd who do not want to lose customization and does not want Chromium developers created technology inside their browser they are using.

        I do not want that too, but i have decided to use Otter-Browser instead.

        It is always the following: Useless for one, useful for the other one.

        Tastes are diverse and no flavor is wrong in general.

      8. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 4:12 pm

        @LordLestat Otter-Browser is an interesting project, but qt makes too much trouble on Windows. And it is bug-ridden like hell.

        Wondering how you get along with the almost endless amount of crashes and bugs without getting mad!

      9. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 7:10 pm

        @Farid le Fleur it crashes indeed from time to time.

        But i want my customization features. That is most important to me. Everything else is of secondary importance.

  6. trends said on April 29, 2018 at 5:17 pm

    Want to try out.
    Currentlly a satisfied PaleMoon user
    under Ubuntu LINUX 32-BIT .

    Is there an Ubuntu LINUX 32-BIT version
    available?

    thks!

  7. LOLpalemoon said on April 29, 2018 at 7:24 pm

    Might as well add PaleMoon developers and (some Palemoon users) to the kiwifarms thread
    kiwifarms (.) is/threads/open-source-software-community.38130/
    My goodness you act like children
    Lunduke and nodejs drama is already there

    1. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 8:39 pm

      @LOLpalemoon Well only if allowed to add you there too, for your clear trolling attempt.

  8. lord lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 7:44 pm

    Has Australis. No thanks. Would be interesting with TLS 1.3 and bleeding edge ecmadraft support or most HTML5 features.

    Sadly Basilisk or later UXP will not be delivering in any of that categories. Not now, not later.

    So, a browser for Pale Moon fans only.

    /Fatality-Sarcasm-warning

    btw. i wonder what happened to lowest class Mozilla troll www. com – changed to the next world or just swallowed by a customization earthquake of revenge? :P

    /Fatality-Sarcasm-warning

    Joke aside, this is for once a rather peaceful discussion with not really over the top hate filled comments. Seems that some of the Moztrolls got a brain or are no longer here at all :P

    1. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 9:02 pm

      @lord lestat i take it back… Seems there are finally more strict posting rules. Even 2 of my comments have vanished and i have not really been rude actually.

      Anyway, i agree with that new rule. So Ghacks can become a serious place again.

    2. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 1:02 am

      I don’t consider myself a troll in the least, but I’m sure that I’m on your list @Lord Lestat. I still post here and I’ve been reading this thread intently. I really wish we could just post as we like.

      These days, I’ve been more interested in New Moon and Basilisk ports by Roytam1 over at MSFN, that run on Vista. His work demonstrates that a lot of compatibility was simply carved out by the Pale Moon team.

      1. stilofilos said on April 30, 2018 at 12:00 pm

        Agree – I recently tried out Roytam1’s New Moon (portable version). All grandeur of the late Firefox revived.
        Installed smoothly, and works flawlessly on my XPsp3 , with all addons I used to have in Firefox.
        New Moon has already become my default browser. Keeping FF as a backup cos it still works fine.

      2. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 12:01 pm

        @Jody thornton Isn’t it the way that the quality of an echo is only as good as the original input?

        If everyone who has a more serious anger driven issue would have not written with personal bias in mind and without public projection of highly negative emotions because Moonchild has refused to deliver to one or more users the functions they wanted inside Pale Moon or their wish was refused to get certain features removed – then no one would call someone a troll.

        It is one thing to be critical. But many comments in the past have gone beyond pure critic. The goal was to destroy and damage.

        All the one’s who hate Pale Moon or hate Moonchild or have a personal grudge for both could have decided to ignore Moonchild and their project.

        If people want to unleash their anger… Go and create a Skype/Facebook/Whatsapp/Telegram group, collect the people of similar opinion and then you can scream and spit acid as much as you want.

        But that has simply no place in a public technology blog. Doing that is childish.

      3. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 12:14 pm

        @Farid Le Fleur:

        I’m keeping it civil. But I’m sorry, my gripes were only with Monnchild’s treatment of others. And since it related to the browser, it had a place. Saying that a technology blog has no place for display of related feelings – well, life just isn’t neatly sanitized or compartmentalized like that. Things merge and cross. Life is messy sometimes, and interests or hobbies sometimes reflect that.

        Although I disagree with it, there were times where Firefox development has been aligned with poilitical ideologies, and some of the believers get really agry and toxic. It completely baffles me, but I guess they have a right to say it.

        Cheers!
        :)

      4. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 12:23 pm

        @Jody thornton you have to give them the benefit of doubth – Perhaps Mozilla is really into politics as they say. You can not deny that there is a chance that it is that way.

        Today, everything is about politics. Have a not popular opinion and you are worse than nothing.

        This has infected real life affairs and also has infected partly software development.

      5. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 6:52 pm

        @Farid Le Fleur And that was the reason why i was not behaving in a nice way to certain individuals.

        As they have gone too far. Perhaps it was wrong to fight camp-fire with most powerful volcanic eruptions, but i can not be blamed for that. What people can blame me for is my half Iranian temper and my sense for honor and loyalty – which my mother made me understand that both should be an essential part of ones life!

        And yes, trolling and flaming is exactly what you should do in your very own closed group of choice, but not in the public. As that always creates a bigger and bigger rising reaction :P

      6. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 6:46 pm

        @Jody Thornton

        Let me tell you two things:

        1) If you would have always acted that way (even if it is forced by the more strict commenting rules now) like you acted here in that special news report of Ghacks, we never ever would have clashed with each other.

        2) Keep it up and perhaps i would be willing to give you a honest apology. If it comes to that, lets see.

        Right now you are neither a troll nor an annoyance. Would be nice if you could keep it that way.

        Thank you very much!

  9. Vakarian said on April 29, 2018 at 8:27 pm

    My dear @lordlestat Perhaps they are there where they belong in the first place… The… as you said it, lowest class.

    Fitting place for them imho!

    1. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 7:12 pm

      @Vakarian Just call me Lestat boyo :P

  10. bgmCoder said on April 29, 2018 at 9:37 pm

    I am a power user and always will be; it’s in my nature. When Firefox killed XUL, I moved to Waterfox and haven’t looked back. I LOVE customization. I hate Chrome because you can’t theme the buttons. I used Firefox since version 3 and was very sad about abandoning it. I still install it on other people’s machines, though, because they are “simple users” who don’t care about customization and don’t even know or care about how to even install an addon. But these days, I have been using and introducing people to Vivaldi, in fact. But I still use mostly Waterfox. I used PaleMoon for awhile, but it seemed quirky to me, and some firefox addons didn’t work properly. Basilisk looks interesting – I hope they make it into something that is not just for “research”.

    1. Lord Lestat said on April 29, 2018 at 10:04 pm

      @bgmCoder Basilisk is powered by the UXP engine which is later coming to Pale Moon – at that state it should work good enough for power users and general customization loving users.

      How long this will be… Only Moonchild and his team can tell you that and of course it depends also highly of how successfull in backporting webtechnology they will be.

      And they had with that many issues in the past. I say enjoy the browsers as long as they around. Nothing lasts anyway forever!

    2. Anonymous said on April 30, 2018 at 6:33 am

      Using Waterfox is just delaying the inevitable. It will go to Quantum too eventually like Thunderbird and Seamonkey.

      Looking at the developer’s track record, I’m having doubt about Basilisk. I guess Vivaldi will be the only ‘power user’ browser in the future.

      1. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 11:23 am

        @Anonymous:
        I mostly agree, however what is it about Vivaldi that makes it a power user browser? It has the same flatter interface as Quantum does, and it even uses Chrome’s engine. I guess what I don’t understand is, Quantum haters say Firefox is turning into Chrome, so they like Vivaldi instead, which has the underpinnings of … Chrome?

        How things can change in a “Blink”

      2. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 11:50 am

        @Jody Thornton

        You can totally change the Vivaldi UI like you have been able in Firefox 20 for example.

        That are features which made Opera classic in the past a power user browser, which was sacrificed because of Opera wanting to focus on the Chrome users.

        There is a real status bar, you can change the location of almost every bar elements. And if you know what you are doing you can rewrite the whole Vivaldi UI as it was written in CSS.

        That makes it if you have the knowledge even more customizable than XUL has been.

      3. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 11:56 am

        @Farid Le Fleur:

        I knew that at one time I could use CSS code to place the address bar above the tabs. But can you change the actual transport buttons (back/forward/stop/refresh)? It’s not obvious how to do this without a lot of research.

      4. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 12:20 pm

        @Jody Thornton And that is the reason why something is called “for power users” :)

        If it would be obvious, it would be mainstream targeted.

      5. bgmCoder said on April 30, 2018 at 6:16 pm

        I wouldn’t call Vivaldi a power-user browser. It is more like the “simple” browser a power-user would actually like. However, it has some features I’ve never seen before in other browsers – like a very detailed history page – shows you graphs and charts and statistics of your browsing history. It still doesn’t let you theme the buttons, though, like you could with old Firefox. The only thing I don’t like about Vivaldi is that it still has a bit of that “Chromey” feel. I hope they get rid of that.

      6. Anonymous said on May 1, 2018 at 6:38 pm

        Impossible because Vivaldi is using Chrome engine

  11. j0hnny said on April 30, 2018 at 2:02 am

    NPAPI plugins are cancer. Kill them with fire.

  12. Stefan said on April 30, 2018 at 3:41 am

    I have used it since it was released. I like it. It is a good secondary browser to Firefox 52.x.x ESR.

    If You want to backup old addons and themes i recommend FEBE. Always great to store what You really need and use. :)

  13. michal said on April 30, 2018 at 8:57 am

    I used it from time to time on Linux Mint, on a quite modern machine. And it’s so slow compared to FF quantum – on page load, choppiness when there’s plenty of media on page. And it’s getting a legacy badge in my opinion, because extension developers except the most devoted ones, will soon drop supporting old extensions. A first example – ublock origin – i think that author said he will provide new versions, but lets face it – at one moment he will stop.

    For a PM fan/FF opponent: go ahead, use basilisk, you are going to like it. PM is a dead end for me and I’ve been using it for years. Both browsers may be faster on older machines though – but here again, its developers dont support older systems or 32bit linux. I would suggest to fill this niche.

    Who want’s to bet that UXP will be rebased to quantum? And then PM marked as legacy, basilisk updated to [email protected]/rust/stylo/webrender etc? Two years? Sooner?

    1. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 11:15 am

      @michal Moonchild will never re base the brower towards Firefox 57 and so on.

      Same like Cyberfox maker will not do that, same like Vivaldi developers will not give up their own virtual UI even if it is slower and less competitive than everyone else’s UI.

      Same like FS-UAE developer will never just re brand Winuae and call it a day and instead decides to work with a more outdated version and patch it.

      Opposed to:

      Brave developers who throw away their virtual UI and go full Chromium

      You see, different developers, different points of views.

      Moonchild will rather put his product into the grave before it has almost no customization like Firefox Quantum.

    2. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 11:33 am

      @Michal wrote:
      […Who want’s to bet that UXP will be rebased to quantum? And then PM marked as legacy, basilisk updated to [email protected]/rust/stylo/webrender etc? Two years? Sooner? … ]

      If they’ve had to rebase twice in four years, I’d say you’re going to win that bet. Eventually they will need to move to the Stylo/Quantum underpinnings. They may be able to keep the non-Photon interface, but it sounds like backporting updates will get harder.

      Initially, I was a big proponent of Moon-Matt and Alex Kontos uniting and creating some sort of WaterMoon medley. But even Alex has had to concede to adopting Quantum for Waterfox builds. So obviously, backporting updates is becoming more difficult

      What seems funny is, supporters of either team are sooooooo opposed to the new changes in Quantum, and the abandoning of XUL. Yet when their teams eventually have to accept defeat and make changes on their own products, the supporter somehow gladly accept the changes that they initially opposed. A year ago, ff you told a Waterfox user that Quantum was eventually coming; there would have been screams of bloody murder. Now, it seems they’re standing by Waterfox with Quantum looming over their product. But my question is, what does it offer over Firefox now?

      1. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 11:53 am

        @Jody thornton as i have written already.. Moonchild would rather kill Pale Moon or Basilisk than to accept an almost non customizable browser.

        It is one thing to re base your product if you still have versions with XUL in front of you or if you have non of them anymore.

        The whole Pale Moon project is highly driven by ideological reasons, so a re bas e against a non-customizable base code will not going to happen.

      2. michal said on April 30, 2018 at 1:55 pm

        Thanks for your sad response. Sad, because possibility that abandonment happens is in my opinion even higher than rebase. I was so happy I used their thunderbird clone (although I didnt have any feature based argument why to use is instead of original thunderbird), and then it was simply discontinued.

        Don’t you think that sticking to UI customisation as an only (well, there are other maybe) thing that blocks someone to move forward is… either childish or stubborn? How many times since the 90ties have I changed software, OS, cars, kitchenware, girlfriend;) ? Come on, lets move along with that “UI I like the most” to a modern, fast, secure browser…

      3. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 2:39 pm

        @Michal people still want UI customization. Therefor they use Pale Moon, Otter, Vivaldi, Qutebrowser, Centbrowser, Slimjet or others which offer in one or more ways choice.

        Additional choice is never outdated or childish or stuborn. Only simple users think that way.

        Customization is still relevant. The only reason why Mozilla or Opera have abandoned it was because they got jealous of the success of Google Chrome.

      4. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 3:54 pm

        @michal Why should be simplicity and minimalism more of value than features or the users choice? Because the majority says so?

        There is something around which is called open market and demand. People demand or do not demand something and the open market should in the best case deliver to everyone something. If there only would be simplicity and minimalism around we would have a monopoly which is not healthy for any market.

        So you see, features, choice, customization have still their fair place today. Just because the majority believes in something is not making it equal with what we call the truth.

        The truth always lies in the eyes of the beholder.

      5. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 6:39 pm

        @Farid Le Fleur In that you are pretty much correct, boyo.

      6. michal said on April 30, 2018 at 2:01 pm

        That last paragraph. Thats ironic, isn’t it? I can’t really imagine how PM developers don’t see obvious gains in recent FF. How do they argument it to themselves to stick and defend obsolete PM, dropping support for windows xp on the other hand.

        Just to note – I don’t know much about how a browser work. I see FF is much faster and PM has had problems with multimedia from year one I used it.

        Anyway reading through ghacks comments about PM vs FF is always refreshing thanks to posters like above. I’m not into flame wars or anything. What I see here is actual discussion, something I haven’t seen on PM forums.

      7. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 3:57 pm

        @Michal Who wants customization first is freely and happily trading “gain” against more flexibility.

        Also what you call obsolete is for someone else more then enough. Please be more objective and try to see it also from the point of view of the ones who like a certain thing.

  14. Klaas Vaak said on April 30, 2018 at 10:51 am

    To me Moonchild’s strategy is completely obscure. The guy develops Pale Moon, then finds it breaks websites or does not perform the way he was hoping, so makes a fork and starts developing yet another browser. And, let’s be honest, what does Basilisk have to offer that other well-developed browsers out there do not offer? Nada, zilch, in my opinion.

    The same guy developed FossaMail as a 64-bt alternative to Thunderbird, then finds he has overreached and drops the project after 4 years. Too bad for the users. “Just reinstall Thunderbird and copy FM’s profile, problem solved”. Yeah, sure.

    And to top it all off, he displays an unusual arrogance to anyone who dares to query or challenge him. Unbelievable.

    I am not here to put Moonchild or his free products down, I just don’t understand how people keep having confidence in the future of his products. Pale Moon may well be a good browser right now (I uninstalled it a couple of years ago), but what about the next couple of years or so? And for what he has to offer with those products?

    1. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 11:18 am

      @Klaas Vaak Majority of Pale Moon/Basilisk users do give a damn about strategy or confidence. The majority uses it because they want oldskool customization which is no longer part in the main line of Firefox.

      And for this reason they accept for the major part more harsh or even major drawbacks.

      It is that simple.

      Also, Basilisks base UXP will be used for Pale Moon. A friend of mine was curious and compiled Basilisk with the Pale Moon component of their own.

      You know what, it has the old Firefox UI.

      1. Klaas Vaak said on April 30, 2018 at 12:15 pm

        If “oldskool” customisation is your interest then Waterfox is a better proposal IMO, because, apart from the fact that you have customisation and the developer committed to “oldskool” XUL, he is also committed to his project – has been at it for 7 years with none of the messing around with other forks, sending users to hell, overstretching himself with different products, etc.

      2. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 12:18 pm

        @Klaas Vaak Waterfox will be Quantum sooner or later. Oldskool customization is there too on the chopping block, unwanted but inevitable.

        So, sorry, but no!

    2. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 11:43 am

      @Klass Vaak:

      See, I don’t see what the harm is in criticizing Moonchild’s strategy or interaction with the community. If I buy a product, then I demand friendly service and satisfaction. And I should be able to make criticisms or reviews about the product. Now granted, later on I was getting at least a tad sarcastic towards the Pale Moon team (but no worse than many Google Reviews on other products and services), but that was only after the team and his followers were disparaging towards those with other ideas (meant to help the browser).

      I am only staying with Pale Moon until I get a new machine this fall. Then I wll go multi-process Quantum full time (and I’ll tell you, multi-process does run faster – there are pros and cons to both sides, but overall, performance has MUCH improved with multi-process)

      And since I put the old machine that I’m using now, back on Vista, I’m using the New Moon builds that work on Vista (and XP – although I do agree XP support should be retired). So, effectively I’ve already cut myself off from direct team offerings.

      As a standalone product, I really don’t see what Basilisk offers either new users, or existing Pale Moon users. Sure, it exists as a development application for the UXP platform, but once UXP is working and has been fitted into Pale Moon v28, isn’t Basilisk really just Firefox ESR v52x?

      1. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 12:06 pm

        @Jody thornton You are granted the right to use Pale Moon or Basilisk. You do not buy the software.

        So you are a user but no customer. That is a serious difference. So the waranty you get and the right to demand features is rather limited.

        Especially when it is a community driven software where the user is often required to deliver code on their own.

        Opposed to developer driven software.

        Please keep that in mind, that is a major difference.

      2. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2018 at 12:20 pm

        @Farid Le Fleur:

        Not meant to be contradictory, but I simply don’t agree with that. Charity organizations that accept donations still exercise courteous customer service. A customer does not have to exchange money for goods. You’re still consuming a product. And if the Pale Moon home page says “Your browser – your way”, people may have different views on what that means, and thus build expectations from that mission statement.

        Anyway, I’ll leave it at that. Have a terrific day.
        :)

      3. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 7:07 pm

        @Jody Thornton

        Still, Farid has hit the nails head with that. It is up to the owner of a project what they are going to implement. You can say that and they can say nyet! Afterwards you can say either ok or bye if you do not agree.

        Also, even the ones who donate do not own the browser. There is no offer on Amazon or elsewhere. So, you are no customer but instead an user. If you donate you are a donating user.

        If you want a feature you see as must have in a community driven project and the owner is not interested, you can contribute. Or leave for another project which fits your needs more.

        Also, your browser – your way is meant in the customization kind of way as you can create a toolbar layout in the way you want and need it.

        End of discussion.

      4. Jody Thornton said on May 1, 2018 at 1:09 am

        @Lord Lestat:

        You can throw your weight around and call for the “end of discussion”, but that doesn’t mean I have to agree with you. The way I see it, you’re consuming a product. Argue the use and licensing conditions all day long. The arrogant attitude of the team is still a glaring blemish, and it’s not only me that notices.

        And as for what Pale Moon’s slogan means, that may not be apparent to a new user stumbling on the browser web site.

      5. Kubrick said on April 30, 2018 at 2:32 pm

        @jody thornton.
        With multi-process also comes more resource usage.You stated yourself that you are getting a NEW computer and this is the key sentence.You forget that a lot of people are running what are considered old machines and the more these bloated new firefox and chrome browsers become the more the older machines will struggle and this is where basilisk and palemoon and other derivatives come in.
        People need CHOICE and when the big corps dictate what people SHOULD use then choice is taken away.
        Open source software is about contributors to the code in an open way and i for one do not wish to have my browser choice dictated by google or mozilla for that matter.The web was invented in the spirit of freedom and choice and we fail if this choice is taken away.

      6. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 6:42 pm

        @Kubrick Wise words. Choice and freedom is all what matters! If both are removed, we are in a dictatorship of the mighty ones.

        And in that kind of situation no one should actually be seriously interested in.

      7. Jody Thornton said on May 1, 2018 at 1:06 am

        @Kubrick:

        The older hardware argument is losing steam.

        Except in the rarest of cases, you should be able to get affordable updated hardware with ease. There are computer shops EVERYWHERE that sell off lease machines between $100 and $200 that have licensed Windows 7 pre-loaded (usually x64 builds) with 4 GB of RAM and an i5 Quad-Core CPU. Even if you put aside $50 bucks a month it should be achievable. In fact, Moonchild himself made a similar argument on the Pale Moon forum just days ago. Off lease or refurb PCs are reliable and cheap.

        Even Pale Moon is moving towards a Windows 7+ requirement set. These OS releases benefit from appropriate hardware. The computers I’ve suggested should be able to run a browser with multiple processes running. And I did say there were pros and cons to both thread methods. You can defeat multi-process in Quantum. So there is a workaround there. No big corp is pushing your decision there.

  15. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 11:32 am

    Pale Moon/Basilisk… i like both of them. Great oldskool customization features.

    The issue with them staying relevant…

    I handle it that way… using a software as long as it works for the pages i watch, if some break, i use a secondary browser. Once the issue with breaking pages is too large, i change browsers.

    So, i look forward for Pale Moon on UXP which gives me an additional time to be able to use the good old classic Firefox UI.

  16. michal said on April 30, 2018 at 3:06 pm

    Aaand there are two fast patches already. Some may value that patches come fast, but it’s also a sign of immaturity maybe?

    I’ve offered a bet few comments above, but now I’m ready for an another one:
    – PM will be deprecated and send to second line on life support this year
    – Basilisk will become “real” future browser instead of testfield

    1. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 3:59 pm

      @michal Pale Moon will just get the engine of Basiliks, the UI stays the same like Pale Moon.

      Like i told earlier – a friend of mine was interested and compiled UXP with the Pale Moon application. And there was no trace of the Australis UI available.

      1. Jody Thornton said on May 2, 2018 at 3:13 am

        I think Michal is being a betting man and making a prediction, despite what’s being said now. But yes, my understanding was that Pale Moon would benefit long-term from UXP development.

  17. New Tobin Paradigm said on April 30, 2018 at 3:56 pm

    The simple fact is.. We didn’t need to rebase at all and UXP didn’t need to exist but with Mozilla on its way to destruction we decided to take things to the next level.

    Instead of following a focusing on the codebase being a “Pale Moon” code base still partly operating under a misconception put forth by Mozilla when they stopped being Mozilla but Firefox Inc.

    We want to take that next step into using the codebase as the platform for many diverse applications for which it was designed for. Of course it primarily serves as a platform for web browsers but the technology so many thousands have developed over the past 20 years can be used to create so many other things.

    Just look at the history of it for applications ranging way beyond a browser or mail client.. You have had an IM client, a calendar, three different wysiwyg html editors, two music management and players, and so much more.

    The rendering, layout, and js engines with xul, xbl, and xpcom are very powerful. Anything is possible.

    What we ultimately want is for that to continue and of course the projects that those technologies are at the core of.

    Obviously Mozilla doesn’t want to continue that in any shape or form but we do.. This goes way beyond one or two web browsers.

    But we did not have to create UXP to do that.. Tycho was fine and it would have been easier to just stay there.. CSS and JS stuff would have been done eventually. Frankly, we expected by 52 that things would have well been in shambles and unuseable so a later codebase jump wasn’t even on the radar..

    However, plans change and 52 while far from ideal was viable with a lot of work and several possibilities opened up in the aftermath of Mozilla formally announcing the eventual end of XUL starting with 13+ years and 22k worth of extensions being wiped out by committee.

    There was also the concept of creating a second browser that would be based on Firefox for current day users of that browser who would feel abandoned by Quantum and the end of mozilla-style extensions that those who flee’d Australis were. There was also the chance that this browser could do and have things Pale Moon never would and appeal to users in a way Pale Moon likely never could..

    Additionally, there are a couple of remaining mozilla-based projects out there with very little long term prospects that we could serve if they were so inclined that just might be more likely to take advantage of our work if ot was broadly closer than Tycho was to what they were using.

    So the decision was made to do one more fork and start work a-new with the focus of not having a codebase that serves merely one program but to strive to do what Mozilla originally did and what the code was originally built to do.

    The remaining bit of course is Pale Moon which as noted has had a complete port up the line before. Luckily with the power of the very Mozilla technology that Mozilla wants nothing to do with anymore Pale Moon can do it one last time and loose virtually nothing. Pale Moon can still be Pale Moon while next door Basilisk is broadly being a cleaned up Australis-class browser and across the street is a pet project I am working on.

    So before I completely loose track of what I am writing about I will end it here.

    tl;dr UXP didn’t need to happen but in the end it is good that it did and in the way it is

    Peace!

    1. Farid Le Fleur said on April 30, 2018 at 4:07 pm

      @New Tobin Paradigm And that is the reason why i use Pale Moon and testing Basilisk.

      Because Mozilla has decided to stop being faithful towards their own users and that the Chrome user base is the only one which has to be supported.

      And a lot of Pale Moon haters do not get that, they are hating everything which is not bowing down to the mainstream and refuses to be simple and minimalistic. They believe just because the majority thinks it is right, it is right.

      But as i said earlier:

      “There is something around which is called open market and demand. People demand or do not demand something and the open market should in the best case deliver to everyone something. If there only would be simplicity and minimalism around we would have a monopoly which is not healthy for any market.”

      And that is what the haters of options, choice, features do forget. They are narrow-minded and hate everything what is not bowing down to today’s major opinion. Which is actually a sad thing.

      Me and many others are very thankful for what you provide since years.

      Thank you very much for what you do for the customization loving community.

      1. Vakarian said on April 30, 2018 at 10:50 pm

        @Farid Le Fleur Well spoken. I appreciate you being calm and thoughtful – traits which are going more and more lost these days.

        We need much more writers like that here and on other sources!

    2. Lord Lestat said on April 30, 2018 at 7:00 pm

      @New Tobin Paradigm As long as your browser works for your own users, i see no problem in using your products.

      Let me assure you, i do not hate Pale Moon, i find it great that you give a lot of people who want features a home, even if you have a rather small team and some issues provide a real (too big?) challenge for you guys.

      I really wish you best luck with this new re-base and for the power users who believe in you, i hope you are as long around as it is possible.

    3. pfft said on May 1, 2018 at 12:37 am

      The issue Palemoon now faces is it no longer has a codebase to fork from Mozilla to keep it relevant. The current Palemoon has a multitude of broken sites (look at the forums and how people try to massage it into working).
      Support for some ‘frameworks’ is non-existent and the only way Basilisk can use these is to take Mozilla’s last Firefox version without Web-extension support.

      Palemoon’s and Basilisk’s life is limited. There is no more code to steal from. Look at the issue rewards for Palemoon if you think I’m being dramatic – no one wants to fix and that will happen again sooner than they suspect.

      1. Anarchist Node 7 said on May 1, 2018 at 12:30 pm

        @pfft I guess it should have been clear by now that trolls have no place at Ghacks.

        Neither the maker nor we from Anonymous approve that. We do not care if you are Appster or one of the many other trolls like www. com – And we are tired about giving reminder to stop attacking minority projects.

        As some other poster here has recommended, create a closed group somewhere else where you and your friends can share your dislike about Moonchild, Pale Moon and else.

        This idiocy is reaching a critical point which is no longer acceptable. Do we really have to start a research?

        In your very best interest.. and if you have something what is called human compassion – keep it civil and stop being ridiculous.

      2. Lord Lestat said on May 1, 2018 at 2:17 pm

        @anarchistnode7 You know what is most interesting? That all the so called “disturbing subjects” are totally afraid to use their normal nicks and are using the anonymity to argue that way with one nick and in another way with a different one. Because if they would do, they know that it only would bring shame over themselves.

        Hiding behind an alias is in some cases a legitimate cause – even i have a different.. normal alias for the rest of the pages i view, different from what i use inside science or technology related blogs or conservatives news and related boards…

        But i do not use my handle here as a reason to humiliate or troll others – if they are not provoking it with me feeling then the need to defend the ones who have been attacked! Perhaps i am personally not the most nicest being, but compared all that Mozilla related trolls i have style. And i do know what honesty, honor is.

        I was raised that way and it follows me wherever i am going. And while i still use different handles my opinion and my Statements of principle are always the same, no matter with what for a kind of handle.

        And that is more than what you can expect fromn “disturbing subjects”.

        I hope this was neutral enough as a declaration of my personal opinion and is not harming others safe space.

      3. Vakarian said on May 1, 2018 at 5:35 pm

        It is good that you guys not only take care of isis related accounts on Twitter @Anarchist Node 7!

        I really like what you do. You are the real social justice warriors today, not the most of the time abused term “SJW” which is used to describe people who think they are a moral instance but know nothing in the end.

        Anonymous is the group which are the only true, real and heroic social justice warriors – a guiding light in the nightly sky which shines far more brighter than all the other ones.

        Keep up the good job guys!

      4. Farid le Fleur said on May 1, 2018 at 12:49 pm

        @pfft Feel free to spit your acid as much as you want. We Pale Moon users keep on using Pale Moon, as long as it is around.

        You can not change our minds, we do not care for your pet browser Firefox and we do not care for Mozilla being addicted to Google.

        I hope it is allowed to write this, without the comment getting erased… We can only laugh about all disturbing subjects trying to make us switch browsers.

        Hey, you know what, even Google has a more serious user base without such disturbing subjects like you. With users like you Mozilla does not win any prize, as the way you react is highly disturbing and putting no good light at Mozilla as a whole.

        And Vivaldi has the more caring developers for their users while they are no opensource developer, even there Mozilla is failing.

        So no, neither you guys or Mozilla and their project Firefox is not getting an Oscar for all this. Go away please and get a hobby away from everything computer related. This is not Sparta, this is only embarrassing!

        All this to be able to duel you with Moonchild and their browsers just because you guys think you have been handled in an unfair way as you have been posting on Moonchild’s board (most likely). And why? Because you wanted DRM, Firefox 57+ or before Australis instead of customization? Because you wanted simplicity because of features? And Moonchild dared to tell you “No, we have other plans”?

        There is a nice phrase i am giving you here at the end.. Do not worry.. it is nothing humiliating, but still the truth!

        L’ignorance mène à la peur, la peur mène à la haine, la haine conduit à la violence!

      5. Vakarian said on May 1, 2018 at 1:12 pm

        Oh @pfft….

        You want to know what would happen to annoyances over at the Google community? Instant ban! And Mozilla is openly collecting and encouraging behaviour like that? There is something very wrong with that!

        First.. Stealing code… well.. how can you steal from an Open Source project? Only when Mozilla declares it is closed source then it is stealing. So please, think before you write.

        I am so happy that i am a Google Chrome user and have nothing to do anymore with Mozilla. They lost their bite once they became Google fangirls. Sorry, that is so very much the truth. Somehow your scribbles remember me of what one can read over Reddit. Dare to post something pro user choice and features and you get down-voted.

        Guess what: Minimalism and simplicity is bad, it excludes choice and the chance for a user to create their own personal setup. Hell, even a simple user like me is able to say that. So you guys prefer something monotonous instead of something diverse… That is fine, but i suggest you do not advertise your own personal view over to people who prefer diversity.

        Unbelievable that this is so hard to understand.

      6. New Tobin Paradigm said on May 1, 2018 at 3:20 pm

        As a matter of pubic record and discourse let me state that while I am not perfect and have personally not always had the best luck handling situations including but not limited to specific prasing or tone..

        The one thing I am for sure is passionate and dedicated to the dream and the original mozilla concept albeit an idealized version.

        Another thing I am is too damned honest for my own good. Honest about the past, my opinions, and especially what is really happening.

        I try to learn from mistakes and try to be better than I am reletive to what ever point I am currently at. I don’t always succeed and maybe it doesn’t matter if I do as long as I keep trying.

        However, I won’t hide or run. The best way to deal with this new breed of “trolls” that have no reason to do what they do, not even the elusive lulz, except that they have been instructed what ti think is to stick with it until they completely expose them selves only then will they retreat back. When everyone who hasn’t been preprogrammed and conditioned can see the full depth of their emptiness.

        That is the point they loose their influence and shock and awe value. It does help to have the truth on your side because in the end whatever is said.. The truth speaks for its self.

      7. pfft said on May 1, 2018 at 11:41 pm

        @Vakarian

        Fantastic understanding of my post.

        I mentioned stealing (I know it’s actually not!) because it’s the ONLY way Basilisk and Palemoon can get access to the newer features they need. They claim to be independent and creating a new browser in Palemoon, however they rely on and need to use the source from Mozilla to stay relevant.
        That has now dried up and as such Palemoon and Basilisk are limited in life unless the project can garner more devs. That’s unlikely.

        As others have said, I wish no ill on the project but the fanaticism of some members with regard to ANY criticism is why so many people have an issue.

    4. OP-Techblog-defenders said on May 1, 2018 at 4:30 pm

      Answer to: “New Tobin Paradigm said on April 30, 2018 at 3:56 pm”
      ————————————————————————————

      Hello.

      We guys have no issue with your projects.

      A sad fact is we face serious issues with massive trolling and general bullying. Anonymous fights on Twitter with #OP*sis against “you do know who” – And there is also a task-force which is taking care about troll posts on a big number of blogs. We find them, we report them, we make them vanish.

      So we are also willing to help you, as a troll is and stays a troll who has to be removed.

      I hope you do not mind if we’re still going to tell you the following:

      You should “switch back a few gears” in how you handle some conversations. May it be with XP folks or may it be the way how you handle branding related discussions – as it is important to always be friendly and polite. Everything else only leads to a poisoned conversation which is not constructive at all!

      That way you do not offer the trolls which are following you additional ammunition and can make them starve.

      Greetings,

      OP-Techblog-defenders

      1. Jody Thornton said on May 1, 2018 at 6:20 pm

        @OP-Techblog-defenders

        Now see, you and I are in total agreement here. If Tobin were to tone down his interactions with users and Moonchild were more receptive to listening to others’ ideas, well I’d even ask if I could re-join the Pale Moon forum again.

        I didn’t know that the anti-PM sentiment extended to social media (but then again, I’m not on Twitter)

      2. OP-Techblog-defenders said on May 1, 2018 at 7:21 pm

        @Jody Thornton

        You missed the point. We are not here because of Tobin, we are here to deliver a message to all this fools who abuse the service of a site – which is neither acceptable or wanted.

        THAT is the main issue here.

        It is more then enough.

      3. Jody Thornton said on May 1, 2018 at 7:44 pm

        @OP-Techblog-defenders.

        No, I didn’t miss your point. i was just making a side note, but fair enough. :)

  18. Paleo Mon said on May 1, 2018 at 2:18 pm

    Just a friendly reminder: you can get rid of Australis UI in Firefox 52 esr with Classic Theme Restorer (CTR). It takes some time to figure it out because it has so many options, but it works perfectly and there is option to import/export settings. Hopefully it will also work with Basilisk.

    1. birmingham said on May 1, 2018 at 5:24 pm

      Yes, I can confirm, Classic Theme Restorer works very well with Basilisk :)

    2. Vakarian said on May 1, 2018 at 5:28 pm

      CTR is quite useful and many people have used that one in the past. But as UXP will come to Pale Moon, in the end this add-on will most likely not needed by Pale Moon users in the end.

      But it is a must have if you hate Australis and want to have another look.

  19. Harun al-Rashid said on May 1, 2018 at 5:03 pm

    I have just deleted Basilisk after two hours testing. Thought it’s better than Pale Moon but it’s even worse.
    After closely reading about it, found out it’s same man behind, who made Pale Moon extension site and some useless add blocker.

    I can see a lot off interesting coments here…my opinion is that Pale Moon/Basilisk people try to defense something which is not defensable.

    @ Ghacks Team/People
    Keep up the good work!

    1. OP-Techblog-defenders said on May 1, 2018 at 5:48 pm

      As we said in our message we are going to report trolls and here we go.

      The following comment actually says something what is not true at all. Basilisk has more ES6/ES7 ecmascript features. That it works worse is therefor a simple lie. Also if you take a look to the nick “Harun al-Rashid” – that is a clear mocking of a user called “Farid le Fleur”

      Hope we can help to make Ghacks a better place again.

      Full respect,

      CEO OP-Techblog-defenders, Anonymous

      1. Harun al-Rashid said on May 2, 2018 at 1:29 am

        Dear “CEO OP-Techblog-defenders”

        If you prefer more, my nick can be “Iznogoud”…and with signature too “I want to be Caliph instead of the Caliph”, …but seriously…

        You missed the point.

        I’m not here to fight with “defenders or pretenders”, it’s just truth that either Pale Moon or Basilisk can fill my needs or satisfie my taste. For that I use Waterfox. It is more then enough superior to those two.

        But in one thing I’m agree with you. Pale Moon/Basilisk “Police and Trols” are either acceptable or wanted here ;)

        Harun,
        The True Caliph :)

  20. Anonymous said on May 1, 2018 at 5:57 pm

    So predictable, as usual…

    The comments on this article are a great taste of the dysfunction, unpleasantness and weirdness that is Pale Moon/Basilisk/”Moon Child/TobinParadigm” (!) Productions.

    Same old commenters, sometimes under different names; same contentious, weird tone and comments. The moderator of ghacks even has to step in and warn commenters to keep it civil, and he still even has to remove some comments! And this HAS been mild and civil compared to what the Pale Moon/Basilisk moonie crowd can usually get up to. I know of no other software community on here that attracts such a contentious dysfunctional following. Virtually every time there’s an article about one of their products on here there’s the same predictable dysfunctional weirdness. But just like their other homonymous cult, I know the moonies love it so much, so at least it makes them happy… For me I wouldn’t touch their obsolete products or dysfunctional community with a ten foot pole…

    I am actually glad that they exist and are doing what they do; it’s just unfortunate most of the lot is so toxic.

    1. Kubrick said on May 1, 2018 at 8:54 pm

      @anonymous.
      And you thought you would add your own contentious,weird comment just for good measure then.?
      Just out of curiosity,which browser would you touch with a ten foot pole?.Could you be so kind as to share your browser/s of choice so the rest of us can demolish its credibility with great dignity and splendour.!.
      Judging by your rather ill-founded arrogance i would guess your a chrome user as you seem to be under the google spell that you are the greatest thing since sliced bread..Would i be correct.?

      Im a palemoon and basilisk user and im rather a happy camper at the moment,lots of customisation options etc.Freedom and choice are simply delicious my friend.

      1. Vakarian said on May 1, 2018 at 9:43 pm

        @Kubrick Save your breath. That guys love the dictatorship of monotony. Actually what haters of diversity have in common is that they all share the same dense opinion.

        “Because many options prove a danger and only simplicity is ensuring the safety of the user”

        Same old boring shout out by Mozilla, same old boring shout out by Mozilla’s armada of trolls. So far i have not seen ONE real user who can be taken 100% seriously without falling in the same old trap which is: customization=outdated, many features=dangerous, simplicity=security

        Mozilla is actually the pet monkey of Google, repeating what Google is saying, without thinking for themselves, and all is repeated by their dense trolls – which scream at everything which is not like that. It is not only Pale Moon… That guys also hate Otter-Browser or Falkon, they hate Qutebrowser and Vivaldi. And why? Because they are different and giving simplicity the put-out tongue.

        If even i as simple user can think so far and i am able to say that features are of value and great for a certain number of users… and Mozilla and their parrots are unable to grasp this simple, straight-forward concept… Well.. stupidity truly just… hurts. Sorry. That is the fact, and it is the truth.

    2. Vakarian said on May 1, 2018 at 9:52 pm

      @Anonymous well… i really would be interested then who the original posters may be, as you say different names. As you seem to know them, i am pretty sure it is no problem to tell their real nicks so we all will get the opportunity to know them.

      Would you please so friendly to tell us the names?

      Well, i am waiting.. If you can, of course!

      1. Jody Thornton said on May 2, 2018 at 3:25 am

        Honestly I didn’t seem to think “Anonymous” said anything all that “controversial”. He seemed to be fairly middle-ground sounding to me. But OK.

        Let me be diplomatic about this, What I worry about is that a total reversal of policy will come about, where all Mozilla users can be criticized as being “dumb” simple users (all fine and dandy by the way), but it will be forbidden to say anything negative towards Pale Moon or UXP. I just want to express my concerns as I feel. And if I want to post as such, why can’t I?

        What concerns me is that there’s a poster on the Pale Moon forum that is now criticizing those of us that are “toning it down” so to speak. Initially, that person called some of us trolls, so we start to behave (or at least I do) But now he’s still not happy. I mean you can’t have it both ways. My opinion and place on this site count too.

  21. OP-Techblog-defenders said on May 1, 2018 at 7:19 pm

    Hello.
    ——–

    It seems that some ignorant individuals still do not get it.

    Perhaps you feel secure under your Anonymous identity – But there are ways to be able to retrieve IP and host-mask and reporting that then to the legal authorities.. which can and will take you down. Trolling and Cyber-bullying is a serious crime and should not be taken too lightly. The respective abusive parties – even if they should still laugh about – should understand that they would face serious consequences as soon as they would be tracked down by the respective law enforcment agencies.

    Which actuall DO exist. And now.. everyone… even the haters and trolls…

    Switch back a few gears!

    OP-Techblog-defenders

    1. New Tobin Paradigm said on May 1, 2018 at 8:02 pm

      @Anonymous

      I appreciate the cause you have set out to do but my personal issues with interaction will only be solved by exploring what works and what doesn’t.. People in general learn by doing and I am willing to accept the consequences of my missteps in an effort to improve my self.. That is just life.

      However, I won’t be shoved in the backroom and be silenced simply because Jody Thornton is upset and continues months down the road to be upset. Also, I won’t just go away because that will solve nothing. I have tried it.. It solves nothing.

      I am getting there (should have BEEN there years ago) and I shall stumble but we all do from time to time. Though, this year and these past few months especially, I been feeling very positive about the work that is happening and the accomplishments not only that I have made but how many more have stepped up like never before. It fills me with confidence for the future.

      Thanks for your support and peace!

      1. Vakarian said on May 1, 2018 at 9:33 pm

        @New Tobin Paradigm Want to hear my opinion of all of this? Even if it is the opinion of a Google Chrome user?

        Here is the big problem which is plaguing the trolls:

        They do not know what dignity is. They are poor and defenceless and hiding behind fake nick-names. Perhaps they believe they have to defend Mozilla’s dignity.

        But hey, what for a dignity? Mozilla has lost the moral stance they had, one can not defend what Mozilla does not possess at all. The only one’s who are defending Mozilla in a rabid way today aren’t actual users – it is an armada of trolls.

        Mozilla and that devoted defenders may think of themselves as real Social Justice Warriors. But they do not know what real social justice is. Social Justice… means you show compassion-ship – which neither.. Mozilla does not show for their old power users and their trolling defenders do not show for people who do not want simplicity and minimalism.

        Mozilla+defenders: What you doing is a witch-hunt. And that is utterly disgusting. And a browser defended by trolls… this is nothing what i and many others ever would use. Period!

      2. New Tobin Paradigm said on May 1, 2018 at 11:44 pm

        Remember that the Pale Moon Project’s official stance is that we want you to use what works best for you. If that isn’t Pale Moon or Basilisk then that is fine.

        However, if someone makes a spectacle of them selves while switching to another browser and you know what I mean.. Huge angry comments and rage quits.. We are gonna comment on it and call it out because that isn’t something that is necessary. Even if you stop using the browser there is never an excuse to go on some huge fit about it or even be mad months and months later seeking out every mention of Pale Moon and disparaging it.

        Hi Jody Thornton!

        ANYWAY, I respect your stance, opinion, whatever words because it makes perfect sense. Thank you for showing me another person who can do that still..

        Peace!

      3. OP-Techblog-defenders said on May 1, 2018 at 11:58 pm

        @New Tobin Paradigm said on May 1, 2018 at 8:02 pm

        Thanks for your support and peace!
        ——————————————————————————

        New Tobin Paradigm, we are not here for mainly delivering support to you, we are also NOT here to support Mozilla.

        We are here mainly for one goal. To support Ghacks. Because, no matter if Pro-Firefox-Trolls or Pro-Pale-Moon-Trolls…. Neither are wanted or needed or tolerated here at all. Ask the normal real users on Ghacks… no matter which browser fandom they may belong to – Nobody is interested in trolls of whatever alignment. But as we have no issue with you guys, why you should not benefit from getting trolls removed. To everyone, if you want a troll removed, please report the post – we are doing that successful since a long time on Twitter. And the #OP*sis mission is deleting rather dangerous subjects out of Twitter. What works over there, works the same way elsewhere.

        All it needs is a bit involvement from the community. Because, even if a troll is a Mozilla supporter does not mean they are good ones. And Mozilla really should issue an official statement to distance themselves from all that dumbasses who think they do that in their name to defend their honor. The only thing this fools are doing, is defending their own stupidity. We from Anonymous are not taking that trolls serious. They are just small-frys which are at best only some kind of ephemera in the long and successful past and the hopefully upcoming long and successful future story of the world wide web. They arrive, they will be forgotten. End of the story.

        Greetings,

        OP-Techblog-defenders

  22. Green Scorpio said on May 1, 2018 at 9:09 pm

    Wanna say this… It’s rather odd that some people are trying to usurp Martin’s authority as sole administrator of the blog. If Martin finds a posting offensive, he is going to delete it. He is the owner of the blog, that’s his ultimate right. He doesn’t need further self-proclaimed arbiters of moral and justice “exposing” trolls and “defending” the blog.

    If you truly are associated with Anonymous, then you have my regret. After all, Anonymous was infiltrated by the FBI long ago. Hector Monsegur was a frist class informant and nobody noticed. He was in the upper echelons of Anonymous. I don’t know and don’t want to know who of you is still spying for the state and sucking information for security agencies all day long.

    “We are Anonymous. We are legion. We are compromised. We work for security agencies. Expect us.”

    There you have it, that should be your motto. That’s the harsh truth about you, it’s all out there on the web already. Perhaps you should do something about that first, before you try to usurp the rights of Martin.

    *sarcasm on* You know what? I am from a super secret underground group trying to restore the chinese emperor to the throne. We are fighting communist tyranny and want to install a perfect constitutional monarchy. A perfect utopia that is, where all people love each other and eternal justice will be. Therfore, we report communist trolls all over the web and report them to website owners who totally care, whenever we can. Oh, and we spy for the chinese government. *sarcasm off*

    Now you can denounce me as a “troll” and “report me” or “investigate me” or whatever, I don’t care. I just told the truth about your FBI infiltrated organisation. Please stop to play Martin Brinkmann in your private chamber, I have yet to see an indication that he wants to have anything to do with you guys.