Pale Moon 27.5 is out featuring lots of changes
Pale Moon 27.5.0, released on September 26th, 2017, is the latest version of the popular cross-platform web browser.
The new version is a major update according to the release notes. Pale Moon users can run checks for updates in the browser to have the new version picked up and installed directly; anyone else may head over to the official Pale Moon website to download Pale Moon 27.5.0 directly from the website.
You can run checks for updates with clicks on Pale Moon > Help > About Pale Moon in the user interface.
Pale Moon 27.5
Windows users, especially those on Windows 10, may notice that Pale Moon supports accent colors now on the operating system. This makes Pale Moon fall in line with other applications that use accent colors when they are run on Windows 10.
There has also been some under the hood editing of things related to the user interface. Some old or dead code was cleaned up, and "general inconsistencies" were fixed in the Windows theme for all versions of Windows.
Another user interface change is the new restart option in the Pale Moon menu. It will restart the browser but it won't reload the session automatically unless that is the startup preference already in the browser. You may use the shortcut Ctrl-Alt-R as well to restart the browser, or hit Shift-F2 and run the restart command from the command line.
Another welcome change in Pale Moon 27.5.0 is a privacy-related fix. Pale Moon will will clear IndexedDB and asm.js cache data when you clear offline website data in the new version. Firefox was affected by this as well, and Mozilla fixed the issue in Firefox 56, the next stable version of the browser which will be released on September 28, 2017.
Other changes of importance in Pale Moon 27.5.0
- Pale Moon users can control the add-on blocking behavior of the browser in the options in the new version. The default is set to "medium: block all harmful add-ons". You may switch the value to off, low or high instead, and find in in Settings > Security.
- Option to exit to a no-content page when a network or security error is encountered. The behavior is controlled by the preference browser.escape_to_blank which needs to be set to true on about:config. The "get me out of here" button loads a blank page instead of the homepage when enabled.
- Session storage remembers HTTPS form data in Pale Moon 27.5.0.
- Experimental Brotli encoding support, but turned off by default as more work needs to be done on the implementation.
- Color management for images disabled on Linux by default. Reason: images look worse on many distros because many distributions don't have "sane default ICC profiles".
- CPU and power consumption improvements thanks to timer efficiency improvements.
- Also, lots of bug fixes, new DOM features and more.
I suggest you check out the official release notes if you are interested in all of the changes that went into the new version.
Pale Moon 27.5.1
Pale Moon 27.5.1 was released on October 10, 2017. It is a security and stability update for the web browser that makes the following changes to it:
- Default Windows 10 style is black on white if no accent color is applied.
- Fixed visual lag when the window color changes on Windows 10.
- Updated overrides for user agents for Dropbox, YouTube and Yahoo to address user agent sniffing issues.
- Fixed a media subsystem crash.
- Fixed a video playback hardware acceleration regression.
- Two security hardening fixes in JavaScript arrays and NPAPI plugin code.
- Mac font security fixes.
- Some libraries were updated.
Obsolete.
In what way, do you have proof do back up your claim?
Don’t bother answering to someone claiming ‘Obsolete’ on something that was significantly updated… today. Pale Moon even beat Mozilla on quickly addressing the IndexedDB issue.
Pale Moon have multi-process architecture?
No?
Obsolete.
Is happysurf a coder/programmer?
Does he know what he’s talking about?
No?
Obsolete.
@Aurora:
I will say one thing for Firefox 57 (and now 58 Nightly). Google Maps tend to render more quickly when I use multi-process mode, than does Pale Moon. Going from the New Tab page to a site is slower than Pale Moon. But navigation sites from there seems a touch faster.
@George, obsolete browser run by a one-man shop. No thanks.
@www.com
Same one man shop that recently dumped FossaMail.
@Klaas Vaak
Yes, same guy who ran FossaMail. It actually was a good email reader at one time, but you can’t rely on a one-man shop to do it all.
@happysurf I fail to see how that makes it obsolete. Other than DRM sites (which I use Nightly for) everything I need and want loads in Pale Moon no issure.
If happysurf has any issues with PM, he should take it up with the dev at the forums, rather than ranting here. Trolls, always doing useless things that won’t change outcomes. Besides, if he wants multi-process architecture or even webext support so badly, just stick with FF. Sheesh, what abozo.
@www.com Fantastic argument. Same of the greatest things in the world are “one-man shops” (whatever that means) and some of the worst are “collaborative, team efforts”. You should be hired to write professional reviews for 3-year olds. “It’s a one-man shop. It’s bad.”
@George
What happens if that one guy dies or decides to quit? You going to take his place?
Please step up to the plate, you love it so much…
@www.com.
Hmm so if the googleplex were blown up would you take up chrome…?
If the firefox building in san francisco were destroyed,,would you take up firefox?
your arguments against palemoon are pointless.
Do you understand what opensource is….?
any coder of member of the open source community could take up palemoon like they would with firefox.
@www.com so, when you evaluate any software, you check the life expectancy of its developers? How interesting, too bad that real life is proving you wrong since Pale Moon has been around for many years now and is constantly updated. Keep worrying though, I’m sure your great discovery that everybody dies some day will be useful to someone.
@Klaas Vaak & @www.com > The world needs you, don’t die.
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=15761#p114474
ftp://ftp2.palemoon.org/FossaMail/unpublished/
I think they must be Immortals. That’s the only explanation for having so much time to waste and continuously spam on Pale Moon related articles.
Seems like another fringe browser may be biting the dust as we speak. Is it time to say RIP K-Meleon yet?
The site is down.
:(
@Anonymous
https://www.wilderssecurity.com/threads/fossamail-is-being-shut-down.393299/
http://www.fossamail.org/
Are they lying? Putting on that brave face? Don’t go down with a sinking ship?
~
@George
I don’t put all my eggs into one basket like you do. Especially from one fringe luddite trying to make some kind of political statement against Mozilla.
I recently had to retire Cyberfox from my program list so I know what I’m talking about. PaleMoon is not the panacea you luddites make it out to be.
@www.com: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Learning_to_read
@Anonymous, keep up that brave spin. Don’t let them see you sweat. Stiff upper lip and all.
I rather use an obsolete browser before i use Mozilla’s Frankenstein creation they call Firefox 57.
But that’s just it. Quantum is by no means a Frankenstein creation. It’s quite a stable fast browser. Have you actually tried it @Sayan?
It is a Frankenstein creation compared to old Firefox before version 29 – It is a fuck you to power users and a full embrace of Chrome/simple users. Not interested in wanting Mozilla’s middle finger.
I rather would go back to IE!
@Sayan: Have you tried it and ran it for a couple weeks? Mozilla was never really targeting power users; it just worked out that way because of the presence of add-ons and extensions.
Mozilla has every right to change their focus. It’s their browser.
And as for Internet Explorer, version 11 really wasn’t that bad.
Firefox 56 is released today! Your release schedule is wrong. Please check the Mozilla website: https:// wiki. mozilla. org/RapidRelease/Calendar
Thanks, I have updated the release schedule. The page states it will be out on Thursday though.
Julian is wrong. Firefox 56 will be released on Thursday. Mozilla’s website still offers Firefox 55 and it was also confirmed on today’s channel meeting that release will be on Thursday (the meeting notes are public in the wiki).
Thanks Sören for the confirmation.
In what country do you live? ‘Cause in mine (Netherlands) it’s still two days before 56 is supposed to be released according to YOUR schedule.
Two solutions on my table
Google Chrome / Chromium && Pale Moon
This browser has passed all malicious predictions :)
When most FF haters thinks will die in a way, a new version comes as a reward.
Thanks Moonchild and Pale Moon staff for keeping my browser alive, Martin for your review.
Kudos to all masters behind this browser.
>Thanks Moonchild and Pale Moon staff for keeping my browser alive, Martin for your review
Until many websites won’t render properly. Isn’t that awesome? /s
Which website you’re talking about? I have many websites on my bookmark that i daily use. I have no problems with them, if I have to report a wrong rendering i go to the forum.
Pale Moon devs listening and reply almost every thread if there is a concern they look to fix it.
Wonder which website you got the issue?
@Nili, you mean like this?
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=16500
Typically, Moonchild’s answer is it’s the websites fault, not PaleMoon’s. As if the web needs to revolve around PaleMoon instead of the other way around.
In principle, why should banking websites kiss a fringe browsers broken ass, anyway? Especially one using old Firefox code?
@www.com I visited the bank page and I can not sign up aswell. I don’t have any acc on that bank but i wanted to check, Like Roranicus says on Pale Moon forum i got the same results, no prompt for username/password.
I read the topic, Interesting opinion lyceus “All government sites in my country are married with MSIE or Chrome”. It’s a choice that made the bank website. Mozilla Firefox has embraced Google as usual. Mabye Pale Moon will do later?
It may be a new feature which can be implemented later. Usually when a missing feature missing they’ll provide later solutions, Same happens with Youtube not reaching 1080p without Flash Player, for quite some time it’s been sorted out forever.
For that log-in concern they’ll definitely find a solution without the help of addons.
I consider that bank page or other pages pros and cons of the Pale Moon browser at the moment.
Thanks for pointing it out
>For that log-in concern they’ll definitely find a solution without the help of addons.
@Nili, that’s been going on for years and is a common complaint around there.
They mostly go like the thread link I referred you to up above. Search their forums. That’s a typical response you’ll get if you complain about certain websites around there.
Mozilla shill. Sure, with Pale Moon you have to make some compromise, but for all pages i can’t view i use a different browser.
Still better as the almost non UI customizable Firechrome garbage from Mozilla
@Sayan:
Stop being a fanboy. Photon as a UI doesn’t make Firefox Quantum garbage. Hey I noticed now that even Dailymotion videos are a bugger to get working on Pale Moon. I tried using it with Flash, as was described on the forum, but many can’t get it to work.
So you’re saying Firefox is garbage, but yet it can render most sites?
Fanboy? I am using Pale Moon for one big reason, as i have a fully customizable browser which is no longer possible with version 57.
What i say is the following.. Who willingly attaches itself to the Google train of minimalism and simplicity and is abandoning for this their previous more complex feature rich concept is garbage.
Even if i despise Chromium, if i would have to pick either Firefox or Vivaldi, i rather would use something like Vivaldi before i would touch this “average Joe/Plain Jane simpleton ware” that Firefox has become.
That has nothing to do with rendering.
Last time i checked and i mean the last version before this Palemoon was significant heavier than Firefox, if you want lightweight firefox-based browser then Seamonkey is the only way to go, period.
Put the glass pipe down! Step away! Just kidding! Sorry! :-D
For me, Pale Moon starts up faster than FF v56rc5, Nightly and Chrome. Chrome is just as fast but not exactly super consistent, maybe I need to do a computer reboot. Anyway, page load times in all browsers is excellent.
I’ve never used Seamonkey but I’ve used many others, still do to a small degree, but I am unaware of Any browser that uses as little ram as PM. Have a screenshot of 32bit PM v27.4.2, 18 extensions, 24 tabs open, using 554MB of ram. Can Seamonkey use uBO, Grreasemonkey and Stylish or some equivalents and do the same? Doubt it, but I’ve been wrong before. Is Pale Moon perfect? No, no browser is. I still have some minor, inconsistent video playback issues that started with v26.5 that has improved since then and I’m hoping that the new version will completely clear it up for me.
Browsers on different hardware will have different results, I consider mine to just be average with a cpu that is a few generations past its prime. ;)
Win7 Pro, Intel Core i5 4460 @ 3.2-3.4GHz, 16GB DDR3L @ 1600MHz, GTX 750 Ti SC, 240GB SanDisk Extreme Pro SSD (OS), 1TB WD Black (DATA)
https://s12.postimg.org/4aj2o2lzx/Pale_Moon_Memory_Use.png
uBlock Origin, Stylish and Greasemonkey work fine in SeaMonkey (although for Greasemonkey, you do need to install a special open-source port of the extension, but it’s still an XPI file so it’s installed and works just like the original). I haven’t tried PM in a long, long time but SM 64-bit uses about 700 MB with 24 tabs open, the Mail module running and a couple of extensions (including the aforementoned three – and note that I’m using the 64-bit version which is the reason it’s a little higher on RAM usage than your PM with the same amout of tabs open; I’m confident that the 32-bit version would equal your PM).
My hardware is even more average than yours:
Solus (Linux), Intel Celeron (2016 version) CPU, 4 GB DDR3 RAM, 16 GB SanDisk U2xx SSD and on-board Intel video card.
@Heimen Stoffels
If I discount all supposition, conjecture, and hypothetical scenarios I am still yet waiting for proof of ANY browser that uses as little ram as PM, especially if/when considering the number of extensions used. I also won’t bring up the lack of any mentioned startup time either. If I subtract my old man reaction time to the time I see, PM startup is just under 2 seconds. Just saying!
It’s cold here in the Rocky Mountains today and because of that I might have had too much coffee. I will quietly go away now! ;)
I made a mistake on the version number of PM in the screenshot in my earlier post, pic was taken July 22nd and that should put PM at v27.4.
Tuesday night I updated PM on my desktop and then measured ram usage. One tab=157MB, 24 tabs=564MB using 18 extensions. The only browser with a faster startup was Chrome Dev @ 1.8 seconds, Pale Moon @ 2.2 and the slowest browser was @ 3.4 seconds. Last night I also looked at page load times and Chrome generally but not always was faster than FFv56 which generally but not always was faster than PM, Nightly, Vivaldi, and Waterfox. Those last four traded spots depending on the site and Vivaldi would have rated higher if the page load time was more consistent. The startup and page load time ‘heavyweight’ champ was Chrome Dev which laid on some massive elbow strikes to everyone causing severe injury, including to Chrome stable. I Hate You Google! ;) Let’s not forget, Nightly changes almost daily, some days it’s better, some days not, just the way it is. Without the dev tools open I am seldom able to perceive one browser being faster than another. For the most part, pages ‘appear’ to be finished rendering before they are finished loading. So… Whatev ;)
Just updated my old almost ancient Win7 x64 laptop which is valiantly trying to hang in there with an Intel Core2Duo @ 2.2GHz, 4GB DDR3L @ 800MHz, GT230M, 240GB ADATA SSD. It has 64 bit versions of Chrome, FF and Vivaldi along with a 32 bit version of Pale Moon. Pale Moon uses the most extensions and easily beat all the others in startup time. Fastest page load times easily went to Chrome but at a huge cost with memory usage. With 4-5 tabs open and scrolling Feedly or Flickr Explore, ram usage within just a few minutes was up in the 2-3GB range. PM consistently had faster page load times than FFv55 and Vivaldi would always crash when trying to undock the dev tools and with the dev tools docked the number of elements on the page changes. So…
I think speed and RAM usage are less important for today’s hardware, unless of course a browser is tangibly slower than others.
User privacy, security and stability are for me the ones to always look out for and these are the reasons that I prefer Pale Moon – a project that puts these above all else (stuff like DRM, features not directly related to browsing etc.).
Everything works for me AFAICT. Is anybody following prefs changes for PM like Pants and crew do for Fx?
Does Pale Moon play DRM-protected videos.?
No, Pale Moon is a 100% DRM free browser.
But I want to play DRM-protected videos sometimes.
EPIC FAIL
DRM is cancer. Only blind, uneducated and ignorant peple would call DRM something good!
@Sayan:
ww.com isn’t calling DRM a good thing. But he wants to be able to view the content. Since Moonchild has taken this moral stance against DRM, he thereby dictates what you can and can’t see.
Yet Pale Moon is supposed to represent freedom of use.
@www.com wrote: “But I want to play DRM-protected videos sometimes. EPIC FAIL”
You must be extremely thick for wanting to play DRM-protected videos with a browser that statedly does not support them. I suggest you try to open a Word file with the Calculator app next.
@George, now why would I want to do that? To make another political statement like you seem to be hung up doing?
Even if PaleMoon managed to play DRM-content, I still wouldn’t use it for other reasons.
Nope, the thickness likes with you. I have no problem using a browser that gives me a choice whether or not I want to play DRM content. At least with Firefox I can choose to disable it. PaleMoon on the other hand can’t really do squat with much of anything, let alone DRM content.
Still a PaleMoon EPIC FAIL
> and Mozilla fixed the issue in Firefox 46… released on October 3, 2017.
I think you mean 56 released on Sept 28th: https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar
Exactly :)
Still says 46 .. should be 56
I hate versions > 12 ;) Thanks, corrected.
A large red banner requesting that I turn off my ad-blocker greets me when I click the Pale Moon download link Martin posted. So does the browser bombard its users with ads? It’s a big No-No if it does.
You are mixing different stuff, Pale Moon doesn’t “bombard” with anything at all, let alone ads.
Then why are they asking to turn off the ad-blocker?
@ Heimen Stoffels first of all, we don’t know what we are talking about here. Who is “they”? TelV was not clear. What is that banner? Is it from an ad that detects his adblocker? That’s not directly related with the website, let alone the browser. Is it from the website itself? I don’t see it now. Perhaps the first time one visits the website, the visitor is reminded of the option to turn off the adblocker to cover server costs etc. That is perfectly normal if that’s the case and I repeat, i do not see it now and never remember it being intrusive or anything.
Bottom line: none of this has anything to do with the browser and we are wasting time here. The browser does not display ads (this browser anyway). Websites display ads. Geez.
@ Heimen Stoffels first of all, we don’t know what we are talking about here. Who is “they”? TelV was not clear. What is that banner? Is it from an ad that detects his adblocker? That’s not directly related with the website, let alone the browser. Is it from the website itself? I do not see it now. Perhaps the first time one visits the website, the user is reminded of the option to turn off the adblocker to cover server costs etc. I see no problem if that’s the case and I repeat, i do not see it now and I never remember it being intrusive or anything.
Bottom line: none of the above has anything to do with the browser and we are wasting time. The browser does not give any ads (this browser anyway). Websites give ads. Geez.
It’s very strange that you don’t see the dirty great big red banner on the top of the Pale Moon home page telling you that the site depends on ad revenue to fund the project which in turns implies that there are ads around somewhere and to please be so kind as to turn your adblocker off. Here’s a picture of it: https://i.imgur.com/66U1wjL.png
Nothing wrong with use ads to fund your project of course, but I was just making the point that “they” (and I’m sure you’re intelligent enough to know who I’m referring to) do rely to some extent on the advertising industry for funding. If they didn’t, why the request to disable the adblocker?
The website is asking you to turn off you ad blocker–not the browser. You’re confusing the window with the view.
All well and good but I don’t see any request to turn off adblockers when I visit any of the alternative browser sites.
@TelV it’s not at all strange that I don’t see it, because there’s an X button to the left, and the “dirty great” banner goes away. I must have seen that months ago. Similar messages appear on many websites. You find it strange that websites use ads to cover their costs? You do know that that’s how the Internet works and that websites have costs, right?
If you are implying that Pale Moon has… dark connections with the ad industry (Chrome must be the actual devil in this case) then I guess the entire Internet has. Have you seen the similar message on the top-right here on Ghacks? Have you ever tried disabling your ad-blocker and surf the web, or supported a website you like by donating or disabling your ad-blocker just for that site? It is common practice to do so… not a criminal act. That banner is just a reminder. Yes, it’s a bit big and reddish. Oh my God, the horror.
So you click the X do you? Why do you do that? Just knuckle under and read all the ads matey because that’s what you support.
I don’t believe in making donations to sites. Why should I help people make money? They don’t give me any of it. There are other ways of funding a project without bombarding users with sodding ads and I refuse to tolerate them.
Oh, and you can stuff your sarcasm where the sun don’t shine.
@TelV if you bothered to read and think before posting, you would have known that I “don’t click the X”.
IF i ever clicked that X at some point, I would have done it months ago and I certainly didn’t waste anyone’s time complaining about a mouse click and a large website banner on articles about software. If it really upsets you this much, you should learn how to use your ad-blocker or switch to a better one.
Skipping the nonsense about “helping people make money” and the single banner with a few ads (which any half-decent ad-blocker will remove anyway) that suddenly became a “sodding bombardment”. Frivolous posts like yours can only be dealt with sarcasm, no one will take seriously a crusade against a single mouse-click and Internet ads that ad-blockers already remove.
You sure have no moral issues using software for free, but keep complaining though, that X seems REALLY nasty and is after your precious money.
Thanks for the article martin. Nice update on my default browser.. many thanks to Moonchild and the team!
Pale Moon has been my browser of choice for years now. The only half sane browser that I know of.
BTW, if you are using uBlock Origin then uBlock Origin Updater is a must.
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?t=16685
https://addons.palemoon.org/addon/ublock0-updater/
@asdf
“origin updater” is a must”. I don’t find any privacy policy by the creator of this add-on, no presentation of her/him at the github site and a gmail for contact. gmail seems like quite a weird choice. so anybody: any information on this?
@b
There you go…
https://github.com/JustOff/ublock0-updater
Why people talk about speed amazes me. Depending on location/weather makes such a difference. Here it’s monsoon time so power goes off many bumps & connection fluctuates.
Tried this browser.. first comment so ugly reminds me of ibm computers. Second tried to make clean start page. Removed all I could then at bottom had to pay $50 to remove banner.
needless to say will never try this rubbish again.
The way I have Pale Moon set up is just as Clean UI wise as Firefox and has a startpage that is also just as clean as Firefox’s and I had to pay nothing…. https://i.imgur.com/4SpwqxQ.png
Stop spreading false “news”. You want to change your first page? Options/General//Home Page and put whatever you want.
You want to customize the start.me page that Pale Moon offers as a default when opening for the first time? Sign-in with a *free* start.me account and customize it. Start.me is not Pale Moon exclusive, it can be used on any browser.
And please, keep the bullshit about the $50 to yourself and think before posting. No sane browser in the world asks for money to customize anything. Does start.me offer an optional Premium service? Yes. You don’t like start.me? Use another first page. The browser is not “asking for money”.
@Fena, if you’re nice to @George, maybe he’ll pay the $50 for ya.
:D
@ George,
I read the email you sent me, but the link to the post goes nowhere so I guess Martin deleted it.
Assuming that to be the case there’s no point in continuing this discussion regardless of the fact that I disagree with you.
Pale Moon has always been more stable for me, by a long shot, than Firefox. I haven’t done recent speed comparisons, but in the past, at least, Pale Moon was also faster. It’s been my primary browser in Windows and Linux since Firefox switched to Australis, and before that, I used it roughly as much as I used Firefox.
Some pages don’t work in Pale Moon. When I run into them, I load them in a different browser, usually Google Chrome. It doesn’t happen that often, but more often than in the past.
I try to remember to proactively disable ad-blocking on sites I want to support but sometimes forget. I want to support Pale Moon, so the reminder didn’t bother me.
Based on what I’ve read, Pale Moon’s development team is small, but it’s not a one-man shop. The browser code is open-source, so the project could be taken over or forked if something were to happen to all of the developers.
It will be interesting to see how Pale Moon fares after Mozilla kills support for XUL/XPCOM extensions. I hope it will garner a big bolus of Firefox refugees — both users and extension developers. Note to XUL/XPCOM Extension Developers: If you’re concerned that Pale Moon doesn’t have a big enough market share, sometimes you have to put the cart before the horse. Pale Moon is what Firefox used to be: your browser, your way. Build the extensions and they will come.
Shutdown of “legacy” extensions hits me very hard, I’m loosing some of my very needed addons: Add bookmark Here 2 (?), CTR (RIP), Scrapbook (RIP mostly), Tab Mix Plus (probably RIP), Flashgot (will be ported), Noscript (will be ported), weather app i’ve used changed to webextensions and it sucks, everything is WE is dumbed down and limited and will need lots of time to regain functionality if ever.
I have very limited options, Firefox ESR (till 2018), then I will review situation and will probably move to PaleMoon (because extensions). Mozilla needs to reintroduce apis for customisations or it is no go for me. Not just another stupid UI change for the sake of change but extension debacle is the worst. I want mozilla golden years back, without this hipster insanity.
So many ATTACKERS on Pale Moon Browser, are you guys insecure on having another non-Chrome/ChromeFox Engine Browser so much dictating on what browser to use on some users?
Internet is FREE, I just wonder why you guys aren’t happy of having 1 or 2 or maybe more self-sustaining browser indifferent from Chrome/ChromeFox unless you are hired attackers/devs from most specifically soon to be Chromified Fox?
It’s always important to have a CHOICE not just Chrome or it’s clones that is almost dictating the standards of the web to only support Chrome specially big websites that uses UserAgent Sniffing that makes non Chrome/ChromeFox act wierd or not at all!!!!
Be FREE and don’t be a SHEEP of this dominating browsers!!! Don’t let the days of Internet Explorer happen again!!!
PaleMoonies who HYPE their luddite browser remind me of the unyielding extremism of Richard Stallman. They are their own worst enemies.
And it doesn’t help trying it out, only to see that they’re a bunch of websites that you can’t log into or don’t render in the browser properly. Then YOU’LL HAVE to use one of the dominating browsers just to get your work done. All just to make a political statement about how ‘independent we really are’.
www .com wrote: “…you can’t even view a 3rd of the websites out there properly”
Apart from learning to read (which indeed seems a challenge for you), you also need lots of basic arithmetic lessons. As if any browser would survive a week (let alone 8 years and keep going) if it couldn’t display “a 3rd of the websites out there”. Yes, that includes banking websites which seem to be the only ones you are interested in. Can’t wait for your “3rd of the websites” non-working list by the way. Because you have proof, right?
No one here is “hyping” anything. It’s sensible people who don’t whine like kids and know what software they are using and how to use it.
On the other hand, you remain the only one repeating the same things and managing to make a complete fool of himself, even to those who don’t really use or like Pale Moon.
You are not convincing anyone, not because Pale Moon is “the best browser around” (no such thing exists) but because you are only throwing nonsense, which can be way too easily perceived and verified as such.
@George, I love the PaleMoon articles here. It gives me a chance to bash all the unrealistic hype you fellows seem to bring here. The dogmatism of Moonchild knows no bounds.
The fact is website rendering is still a big problem for PaleMoon and if you do any online banking or look up any personal information and have to log into the website to view it, there’s gonna be a problem. And I’ve linked to your own website forum before as proof of that. It’s there in black & white and you’re still in denial about it.
The rest of your spiel is just personal nonsense that has no bearing here. And who appointed you to speak for everybody else, anyway?
It is not only PM – people like @wwwcom hate alternative browsers which have more features than stock Chrome or stock Firefox 57 – and why? They think that there should only be simplistic and minimal software around and that only simplistic users have the right visions. Even if they say the opposite, mention one and you get attacked ;)
@wwwcom Wondering if you have been an ex PM user which got mentally destroyed after MC refused you some shiny Google inspired tech stuff.
Hiding behind your anonymity and bashing just because you r butt-hurt… Really intelligent *LOL*
I always get a laugh from all the haters out there when Martin has an article about Pale Moon. There are simpler and much more idiot-proof browsers out there for those that are incapable of or just not willing to deal with the challenges of using PM, and let’s be honest, there will be challenges but there will also be advantages. And I’ve said it before, ‘only the few are chosen’, all others should just walk away. I have of course obviously been a long-time user of PM and have even donated in the past. I started using FF the day v3 was released and from then till now PM has spent more time as my primary browser even though FF has been my primary this last year. There are advantages to keeping PM and things are very much changing in the browser landscape so who knows what the future holds.
@Richard Allen, “challenges of using PM”??
lol…
Who needs “challenges”. People just want a browser that works, which explains why Chrome is so popular. So popular that I decided NOT to use it since I don’t want to be a data supplying product for Google.
I’m not opposed to all alternative browsers out there, but a browser shouldn’t be such a challenge that you can’t even view a 3rd of the websites out there properly and then have to beg and struggle with it in the PM forums. Life’s too short for that. I’d settle for a FF clone like Cyberfox where you didn’t have to mess with a lot of things beyond what you would with standard FF, but not with a primitive browser based on 2010 code.
Too bad Cyberfox is no more, but it was good while it lasted.
@www.com:
“[Y]ou can’t even view a 3rd of the websites out there properly….”
I sometimes spend all day browsing in Pale Moon, and the number of sites I have to open in Google Chrome for them to work properly ranges from 0 to maybe 3 per day. It’s hard for me to guess how many unique sites I visit each day, and definitely not worth my time to parse my browsing history in order to figure it out, but still, the number of sites that give me no problem whatsoever in Pale Moon is vastly higher than “a 3rd of the websites out there.”
@Different Martin, it’s good to know you don’t do any online banking or rely on a site where you can’t entirely disable javascript if you want to get any work done. I’m proud of you where you never run into things like that. Good job, son.
@www.com:
No, I don’t spend the entire day doing online banking (or trying to hack into other people’s bank accounts, for that matter). And I visit plenty of sites in Pale Moon where I have to enable scripting on one or more domains in NoScript in order for them to work properly. (I’m pretty sure it’s actually the majority of them.)
My question is this: Where does your animus against Pale Moon come from? Why do you care so much whether other people use a browser with a small share of the market? Are you sock-puppeting for Mozilla? For Google? For a web developer that develops exclusively for Chrome and/or Firefox? For an ad agency or consumer intelligence firm? For an American or British alphabet agency (NSA, GCHQ) or one of their private contractors? Did someone on the Pale Moon development team hurt your feelings?
@Different Martin, all those and then some. -lol…
I’ll let you run away with your imagination on it. Maybe if you all weren’t so fanatical about it and acknowledged the browser’s weaknesses and had something critical to say about it, I’d back off.
But no, gotta keep that stiff upper lip. Don’t let them see you sweat. Jolly good, olde son
Capice?
@ http://www.com:
I still like Pale Moon because of its support for powerful extensions and the customizability of its interface, just like I used to like Firefox because of its support for powerful extensions and the customizability of its interface. I’m hardly fanatical. I have routinely noted that a slowly increasing number of sites (most recently Dropbox.com) are no longer working properly (or at all) in it. I still have Google Chrome, Firefox 56, Firefox ESR 52.x, and more-or-less-plain-vanilla Internet Explorer 11 installed as fallbacks — hardly the hallmark of a fanatic.
As for keeping a stiff upper lip and being an olde son, you’ve got the wrong side of the pond.
I still don’t get where the animus comes from. I also like Windows 7 better than Windows 10, even though 7 doesn’t support some new and better technologies. I like steel-framed bicycles better than aluminum-, titanium-, or carbon-fiber-framed ones, even though steel frames are heavier. I prefer laptops and cell phones with user-replaceable batteries to disposable ones with sealed batteries, even though user-serviceable ones are slightly thicker. Am I a fanatical Luddite? Or am I making an informed, considered choice based on criteria that are important to me? I think it’s the latter.
Well, in times where Firefox becomes a Chrome similar browser and Mozilla addicted to Google tech, all the desperate Firefox fanboys have to fall back to insults to justify clinging to a Google addicted company like Mozilla. That way they feel better ;)
Well said Sayan.
I liked Firefox due to allowing user freedom over corporate nonsense.
Then they gave into corporate nonsense with DRM. I only move from closed source to open source, I do NOT move the other way. Ever.
That’s when I moved to Pale Moon. And I even got back some extensions that drastically improve my workflow that Firefox doesn’t support anymore as well.
Basically, Firefox abandoned the reason I chose it over any other browser, but Pale Moon picked up that reason. Firefox is a joke anymore.
@asdf
thanks for the link. However, I did read it before I wrote my comment. I find it hard, in general, to determine reliability/privacy policy of extensions especially with this one, as it’s not made by gorhill himself. anyways; I did some more reading and chose to install it along with the latest xpi file of ublock origin. these days, pale moon is my default browser and waterfox my second.
I mentioned this on the new Waterfox thread …. I was reading the link below on the Pale Moon forum. A user there claims he left Pale Moon and went to Waterfox:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=16914
Now he’s back to Pale Moon. He claims that Waterfox took TWO MINUTES to start. Really? That sounds insane. And why won’t he mention what malfunctioning extension didn’t work with Pale Moon.
Sounds like some trumped up stance he’s taking.(meaning he’s boasting about Pale Moon with some purposeful reservations in mind. Why?). Seems to be shitting on Waterfox for no good reason.
Of some fascinating and mystical reason Palemoon seems to be quite a “CONTROVERSIAL” browser, why?
Lot’s of agents on a payroll? :D
SHOW…ME…THE…MONEY!!! Tom said it all back when! LOL
Long time PM user here on linux.I am very satisfied with this browser and no big issues to report.
one-man shop…?
aha the distro i use only has a single man to its name but it seems that FOSS has no relevance here.people can contribute etc and that is what FOSS is all about.
You all do know that Pale Moon’s number one recommendation is to use what works best for you, right? It may be Pale Moon.. It may be the upcoming Basilisk, it may be Firefox or Opera or Brave or Chrome or Edge.. Or hell even Internet Explorer..
It is one of the guiding principles that one should not be forced into using a solution that doesn’t work for them.
As for the One Third of the internet that doesn’t seem to work with the browser.. Well, that is about as crazy as half-moon’s two minute startup claim about Waterfox for the three minutes he was away… Anyway, yeah it is a problem.. Sometimes it is the browser’s fault.. No questioning that.. Sometimes it is poor security which the browser, by default, prevents access to because it is not very secure if at al.. Sometimes it is a feature that hasn’t been implemented into Javascript or DOM… Either because it is an edge case or simply haven’t gotten to it yet. Sometimes it is plain obsolete user agent sniffing.
Obsolete is a word thrown around in circles when people who are not fans of Pale Moon want to justify their rage.. What is more obsolete than user agent sniffing in 2017.. Feature detection has been a thing for many MANY years now and still every framework used by every college dropout “web developer” has a library that automagically determines if the site will render strictly based on what user agent is sent regardless if the Browser is capable of rendering the html or executing the Javascript. This is insanely backwards.. As backwards as some seem to deem the more classical user interface that is so backwards that it is fully customizable in look, feel, and appearance. As backwards as having powerful extensions that could be complete applications in their own right.
As, I said, sometimes it is purely the browser’s fault for not having some obscure tidbit some clueless web developer is using. Though, maybe they should have used Feature Detection and possibly provided a polyfill for browsers that may not waste 400 million dollars a year on Social Justice ambitions and failed projects like Boot2Gecko/FirefoxOS for 6 years. A browser that might be a touch behind on the latest shiny key on the keyring jingled in front of your faces.
Someone above said that every browser has advantages and disadvantages.. This is totally true. It is up to everyone to make that decision for them selves and try not to force their opinions or their rage on everyone else because you see a textbox and a submit button. Use what works best for you and we all will use what works best for us.
There is another option as well.. Being an Open Source Community Project, one could find it advantageous to get involved and help develop the browser. You know, before Moonchild gets hit by a few more busses.
Peace!
Well said Intelligence Rules
I guess my biggest concerns are the future ability of re-basing Pale Moon and even the creation of Basilisk. Here goes:
–
Awhile back, Moonchild needed to re-base Pale Moon on Gecko v38. It was said (both when re-basing on Gecko Builds 24 and 38) that no further re-basing would be needed. I always thought, “How can you predict that?”
The big promise was never giving in to Australis and continuing to update the browser while retaining the older interface.
Now comes along Basilisk, as a means of creating a platform akin to Firefox v52x ESR (which already has shortcomings to newer Firefox releases). But even Moonchild admits two things:
*** Basilisk will include the Australis interface
*** Basilisk will one day be used as a base for future builds of Pale Moon (which he emphasized previously that Basilisk was a separate mandate from Pale Moon – hmmmm I’m not so sure that, at least in terms of eventualities.)
So how can Moonchild guarantee that he’ll be able to update a Basilisk based Moon once Firefox ESR dies? He can’t. He stops short of saying that eventually Pale Moon will need to be built on top of Basilisk, which will contain the Australis interface. Will former Waterfox and Cyberfox users migrate? Maybe, but Pale Moon users who long for the classic interface – will bolt.
To mitigate that issue, maybe using CTR might help. But then again, will a long abandoned CTR extension even work reliably with a Basilisk made Moon?
Even over at the Waterfox tent, Alex is getting push back from users with the change of profile folder locations, performance hiccups, and the Vista/XP crowd are awaiting their long-promised ESR x64 build. It doesn’t take long to realize that Alex is getting quickly overwhelmed. The fringe browsers are going to experience MAJOR challenges.
One other thing – no WebExtensions? I understand that legacy users hate them, but Pale Moon needs to adopt it. You’re just asking to be left behind.
Pale Moon must do nothing. Webextensions are Google crap tech. They do not need them at all. Google tech is fully optional.
Also, a browser is no toybox. You want to play around, get some toy.
@Sayan:
How was I saying Pale Moon was a toybox? I’m using it myself. And even Moonchild doesn’t seem to think you should do noting (hence the creation of Basilisk).
Nothing wrong with pondering the strength and future of the browser.
Based on everything that I was able to read on the PM forum, when the time Pale Moon gets rebased under UXP (stands for Unified XUL Platform, not Basilisk), it will not adopt Australis and only back-end changes (hence platform code) and it will be quite impossible for WebExt to work natively in PM since its frontend will only allow XUL extensions, whereas WebExt uses HTML for it. Though a compatibility layer might work, it will surely be messy.
You may want to check this post:
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=62&p=126201#p126028
But then Moonchild confuses things because he is steadfast in his assertions the WebExtensions will not be assimilated into Pale Moon. And look, how long can he continue updating Pale Moon based on the older interface, when there will be no new updated code to re-base on? That post shows that he believes a lot of custom code will need to be eschewed in favour of UXP.
You have more faith than I do.