Mozilla plans to collect anonymous Firefox browsing data

Mozilla plans to collect browsing data from Firefox users in a "privacy preserving way" to help Firefox product teams improve the browser based on the data.

Mozilla's Georg Fritzsche published information on the plan to collect additional data yesterday on the Mozilla Governance group.

In it, he describes the issue that Mozilla engineers face currently. While Firefox may collect the data when users opt-in, Mozilla believes that the data is biased and that only data collecting with opt-out would provide unbiased data that the engineers can work with.

Questions that this data may help answer include "which top sites are users visiting", "which sites using Flash does a user encounter", and "which sites does a user see heavy Jank on" according to Fritzsche.

firefox data collecting

The solution that Fritzsche proposes uses differential privacy and the open source RAPPOR project by Google.

The key idea behind differential privacy is that any query against a set of data should not reveal whether a specific person or that person's data is present. This is done by introducing randomness to the data.

Mozilla plans to run a study on a subset of Firefox's release population to test the implementation. The organization plans to make this opt-out, which means that Firefox users need to disable this actively if they don't want their browsing data -- in anonymized form -- submitted to Mozilla.

What we plan to do now is run an opt-out SHIELD study [6] to validate our  implementation of RAPPOR. This study will collect the value for users’ home  page (eTLD+1) for a randomly selected group of our release population We  are hoping to launch this in mid-September.

This is not the type of data we have collected as opt-out in the past and  is a new approach for Mozilla. As such, we are still experimenting with the project and wanted to reach out for feedback.

The telemetry that Mozilla plans to collect will only collect the top level domain name, e.g. ghacks.net without subdomains or directories.

Read also:  Block sites on Google Search with Personal Blocklist for Firefox

Google and Apple use differential privacy already, Google does in Chrome for instance.

Mozilla has yet to reveal how users may opt-out of the study. We will update the article as soon as this is revealed by the company.

Closing Words

One objection that Firefox users had who replied to the post on Google Groups or elsewhere was that making the feature opt-out was anti-privacy no matter if the data that is collected cannot be traced back to a single user.

Others stated that Mozilla could some of the data otherwise, for instance by crawling sites to check if they still make use of Flash, or by using services to retrieve information on the top sites on the Web.

Now You: What's your take on the proposal?

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Mozilla plans to collect anonymous Firefox browsing data
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Mozilla plans to collect browsing data from Firefox users in a "privacy preserving way" to help Firefox product teams improve the browser based on the data.
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Responses to Mozilla plans to collect anonymous Firefox browsing data

  1. Chandler August 22, 2017 at 7:04 pm #

    As long as I can opt in or out with Mozilla data collection I am fine. Total privacy in the net would be desirable but it won't happen. There is too much money and other interests involved to make it completely private. People who are concerned and actively try to protect their privacy are a minority anyways. Too many are turning into monkeys pushing on a button to get a banana, sometimes for a high price to pay.

  2. Curtis K August 22, 2017 at 7:08 pm #

    You do know that Flash keep on Firefox.

  3. kevin August 22, 2017 at 7:10 pm #

    Yikes, Mozilla is becoming more like Microsoft and Google every day. If there were an alternative for Linux that worked with a screen reader (and which wasn't chrome), I would be investigating transitioning to it now.

    No Mozilla, you don't need browsing history to figure out what sites the browser has trouble rendering. You can hire people to test it(instead of wasting money on projects that have nothing to do with web browsers like fighting fake news). Or if you don't want to hire people, you can switch this feature on only in the development versions and clearly explain to users who actually choose to use development branch what is going on and why. There's no reason to subject the mass public to this.

    As for the constant argument by the corporate types that this data is collected to make products better for users, I don't buy it at all. How many users asked for the option to disable the loading of images to be buried way down in the about:config registry-ish hive? Image loading is a common feature to toggle if you transition from cellular and wifi networks a lot. How many of us asked for the Metro UI on Windows?

  4. TelV August 22, 2017 at 7:19 pm #

    If it was just a set of neutral sites I wouldn't be concerned, but the data they want applies to the top sites users are visiting like Facebook, Twitter and the like. I ask myself why Mozilla would be interested in that.

  5. Yuliya August 22, 2017 at 7:24 pm #

    Why do they need to collect data in the first place? It's not like they are listening to their user base anyway. Meh, idgaf at this point. I won't use anything past Fx v52.

    • Jeremy August 23, 2017 at 7:00 am #

      They need to know what porn sites people usually visit. The reason people fight for privacy is because they don't want their (porn) browsing habit to be known by other people.

      • Anonymous August 23, 2017 at 8:59 pm #

        Don't people use Tor for that?

      • AnorKnee Merce August 24, 2017 at 10:47 am #

        @ Jeremy

        Seems like you are saying that Mozilla Firefox have the right to collect user-data because the users are visiting porn sites.

  6. ex-Fox August 22, 2017 at 7:27 pm #

    "Do no evil". Oh wait, that's not Mozilla; that's someone else. Oh right, I forgot there for a second...

    Result? One more nail in the coffin that was Firefox. RIP.

    But why stop at Firefox? What about mining data from Thunderbird emails? All in the name of improving the user experience.

  7. Valrobex August 22, 2017 at 7:33 pm #

    I wonder how much Google is paying Mozilla to do this?

    Why is Mozilla using the RAPPOR project by Google when Mozilla could collect and analyze the data themselves? After all they will "only collect the top level domain name..." If that's all it is it's a simple statistical analysis. I am very suspicious of this "proposal."

    • Anonymous August 24, 2017 at 5:04 pm #

      Actually this library IS what makes this proposal less shocking. Lookup differential privacy.

  8. Anonymous August 22, 2017 at 7:33 pm #

    I'm using ungoogled-chromium with crlauncher. It's portable, lightning fast and there's no trace of google.
    I was a long time Firefox user, but those changes are worrying me.

    • Chrisev August 23, 2017 at 3:56 am #

      I have been using Cent Browser. It has some great added features that Chrome doesn't have. Feels faster than Chrome too.

    • Skynet August 23, 2017 at 4:03 am #

      Use multiple browsers and multiple accounts and VPNs. Browser tracking isn't much of a problem, data collection from your personal accounts and contacts, or even worse your OS, is a much bigger problem. The UN needs to pass some kind of global law to end this kind of covert data THEFT by tech companies and spy agencies.

  9. Tony August 22, 2017 at 7:47 pm #

    What a waste of time and resources.

    Spend time fixing known bugs, some of which have not been resolved for over a decade.

    Once that is done, then... oh wait, that'll never be done.

    Please, Mozilla, stop wasting resources on things like this, and instead focus your energy on quickly fixing known bugs.

    (BTW, any data collection is still going to be heavily biased, because power users will likely disable this data collection immediately.)

  10. HK-Rapper August 22, 2017 at 7:50 pm #

    >"which top sites are users visiting"
    The guy in the image should work at NSA instead, sounds like he made a wrong turn on his way to the job interview.

    Linking back to how hard it is to already opt-out:
    http://www.ghacks.net/2015/11/09/how-to-disable-the-firefox-saved-telemetry-pings-and-archive-folder/

    They archive it locally even if you disable it. Needs heavy about:config fiddling. And new switches are added in the later versions.

  11. Thorky August 22, 2017 at 8:00 pm #

    Mozilla is killing Firefox step by step ... monoculture webextensions, monoculture data-collections ... how silly are those decisionmakers?

  12. Rotten Scoundrel August 22, 2017 at 8:02 pm #

    We use Palemoon mostly, but one of our banking sites needs FFox, so this has worked since v52.

    sudo apt-mark hold firefox

    Oh, wait, that's not a windows command. Sorry. :)

    • Anonymous August 22, 2017 at 8:09 pm #

      Use firefox-esr (apt install firefox-esr) instead of using an old and buggy version.

      • TimH August 23, 2017 at 5:16 pm #

        sudo add-apt-repository ppa:jonathonf/firefox-esr
        sudo apt-get update
        sudo apt-get remove firefox
        sudo apt-get install firefox-esr

      • AnorKnee Merce August 23, 2017 at 5:43 pm #

        @ TimH

        I think you should only remove the normal Firefox AFTER you have installed Firefox 52 ESR. When I did it this way, the installed Firefox 52 ESR retained all my user settings from the normal Firefox, eg Preference settings, installed add-ons, bookmarks, etc.
        ....... Then I uninstalled Firefox 51 through the >Menu >Internet >Firefox >right-click >Uninstall.

  13. ak August 22, 2017 at 8:13 pm #

    They are only going to record eTLD+1 which mean example.com and not subdomain.example.com or example.com/path/

    They will also record which website is slow or non-responsive in Firefox.

    They are using differential privacy which prevents from identifying someone so they can't tell if which website visited by which user.

    Those who don't want telemetry can disable in settings. Most who visit ghacks probably have disabled already.

  14. Nebulus August 22, 2017 at 8:22 pm #

    This is another step taken by Mozilla in their misguided quest to become a Chrome clone. But, as Yuliya said above, I don't plan to upgrade Firefox anymore and I will stick to ESR v52.

  15. MOYcano August 22, 2017 at 8:27 pm #

    I agree that opt-in data is biased (since it may include mostly power users and enthusiasts). I also agree that opt-out data collecting would provide unbiased data and be a potential game-changer for the engineers. Finally, I trust Mozilla, so I like this plan.

  16. jimbobillyjoe August 22, 2017 at 8:28 pm #

    It's a web browser - it should be web agnostic. What websites you visit or don't (should be) irrelevant.

    It's not the engineering dept that wants this information; it's the marketing dept.

    • Steve Hare August 22, 2017 at 8:42 pm #

      You are absolutely correct. The least they could do is acknowledge that fact.

  17. Theo Pratt August 22, 2017 at 8:45 pm #

    Slower than Chrome
    Less secure than Chrome
    Soon fewer extensions than Chrome
    Then also data collection like Chrome

    How does Mozilla marketing want to differentiate their product in a positive way?

    • ak August 22, 2017 at 10:11 pm #

      Firefox 57 is nightly and is as fast as chrome if not faster.

      What makes you say it is less secure than Chrome. It is used to be insecure but now Firefox is using sandbox and is secure same as Chrome. You can also trust Firefox extension more since they are reviewed manually.

  18. Marcin August 22, 2017 at 9:24 pm #

    "which sites using Flash does a user encounter".

    Now that Flash is dead, they will start collect info about it ? Really strange, it makes no sense to me.

    • ak August 22, 2017 at 10:14 pm #

      Many people are still using Flash otherwise Mozilla/Google/Microsoft already have removed it.

    • Anonymous August 23, 2017 at 10:22 pm #

      It's useful to study where Flash is needed in order to better plan for its complete removal and minimize breakage

  19. Mikhoul August 22, 2017 at 9:41 pm #

    At least with Chrome expect they data gathering is opt-out but MoziSoft Oups ! GoogZilla Oups !

    It's not like they had listened their users... MoziCraps each week is becoming more Evil. :(

  20. Tom Hawack August 22, 2017 at 10:05 pm #

    Collecting data in a "privacy preserving way" to help Firefox product teams improve the browser based on the data...

    In the pre-Win10 era, that is for decades, applications and software were provided to beta-testers and then made available. Users' feedback would then allow correcting and improving the code. I just don't understand why users have now become those beta-testers unless to consider that data collection is the real stake.

    My take on this proposal? Depends of the scenario.

    Scenario 1 : "After Me I Don't Give A Damn" : as long as there's an opt-out, or even as long as blocking this new telemetry the dirty way with no opt-out doesn't break the browser, then its fine with me. Other people's problems ain't mine, if they care about their privacy it'll be up to them to strive for it, I ain't no guru.

    Scenario 2 : "I Survived When Others Drowned" : even if I make it, even if I can work-around this new telemetry fantasy, I feel concerned by those who will deliver to talented eyes and ears the privacy of their Web sessions because not aware that the new telemetry is active (do they even know the present data collection exists?) and/or that it may be bypassed by opting-out. I'm no guru but compassion is part of my life.

    Whatever scenario fits best remains the fact that obviously more and more companies are making their data-collection coming-out. Too much challenges, power, money involved, no more time for sweet lies. Next step will be "Yes we collect your data, we analyse it, we sell it and if that makes you uncomfortable we really don't care, move out we won't miss you". They're still a little bit too shy I guess.

  21. A nore nee merse August 22, 2017 at 10:56 pm #

    Wonder how Pants, www(.)com, Frodo and other Mozilla apologists are going to "apologize" for this anti-privacy move of Mozilla.?

    • Pants August 23, 2017 at 7:28 am #

      You must have the wrong Pants. I would respond like I always do - investigate it (which I have yet to do) and fight for the right of privacy: if all conditions can be met to guarantee privacy (even a 3rd party audit eg EFF), and the accumulation of such data is warranted, and there are easy ways to opt-in/opt-out then I would be ok with it. If the data is warranted could be tricky (like I said I have not investigated it), as it's a bit of a different collection for sure from regular telemetry. One thing I try to do is always stand in the other person's shoes - maybe this type of information from a truly random group will provide some real benefit to the browser's stability and speed. IDK.

      If you saw my comments in the ghacks user.js github repo on Follow-On Searches and the GA in about:addons>get more addons, and even the system add-ons control and the Shield Recipes, you would realize my stance. I agree that everything Mozilla does needs to stand up to scrutiny in this regard (privacy). I agree that debate is good.

      You are using circular reasoning and shifting the burden of proof, not to mention adhominem attacks. Apparently I'm an apologist and the move from Mozilla is already proven to be anti-privacy.

      I am only replying so you can't call "argumentum ex silentio" on me :)

      • Nebulus August 23, 2017 at 11:34 am #

        IMO there are some things you just don't do. Thinking about collecting data from users is one of them. Implementing such a system is another one. It doesn't matter that there will be an opt-out, or that more tech savvy users will bypass it in some other way, or even that that data might be useful to Mozilla. If you stand for privacy as a matter of principle (as Mozilla said they do), you don't collect data. It is a matter of being honest you yourself and to your users, not a technical one.

      • A nore nee merse August 23, 2017 at 11:36 am #

        @ Pants

        Aren't you pro-Webextensions.?

      • Tom Hawack August 23, 2017 at 2:50 pm #

        @A nore nee merse, I'll reply though your question is intended for Pants.
        IMO Pants is for one thing : privacy and security, in an open-minded and non-sectarian way, led by a blend of pragmatism and determination (itself occasionally illustrated by the anger of revolt).

        Be reminded that if starting quite a colossal work such as his user.js files for Firefox is most valuable, continuing as he and his collaborators do is relevant of a commitment to his privacy and, because shared, to our very privacy as well.

        I admit that I'd be annoyed that because this commitment concerns Firefox those who strive for its privacy be considered as blind advocates of the browser, of its add-ons & tutti quanti. Several topics that those of improving and those of approving, not to mention that approving fanatically is not usually a trigger for improvement.

        I used to participate (from far) to the user.js work, I don't have time now (and I confess a certain lassitude concerning tracking, malware, the rotten side of the world as a whole), but I admit that finding the latest settings' explanations and proposed modifications for *every* new Firefox version is a haven of most valuable, ready to discover/integrate information. Be said (now that written!).

      • Appster August 23, 2017 at 4:59 pm #

        Pan(t)sy is a full-blown Pro-Mozilla shill. Don't you dare touch his idol. He'd come to its defense faster than you could say 'Firefox'. This is a response I've received from him some time ago (in regards to WebExtensions):

        "WTF is wrong with you Appster? Why do you feel the next to throw walls of text at anyone and everyone with your anti-Mozilla 57+ crusade? Speak for yourself - you are not a "real" Firefox user, and you are NOT Mozilla running a large complex and expensive software. Neal above simply stated a middle of the road position, with a few relevant facts about his situation - he's running ESR, FF57 and Chrome, and has drawn his own conclusions. FF57 has only just entered Nightly, about 11 more weeks before it lands. And there is more improvement in terms of speed to come. Most comments I have read from users indicate way more than a millisecond, you pedant. How dare you tell Neal what he does and doesn't feel about about 57's performance. You are NOT him. Mozilla has mapped a path for the long term - this includes many factors, not just speed. And all the reasons why they have done what they have done have been explained, numerous times. Bitch somewhere else man. Take your UI obsessive view and shove it. Users can quite clearly use ESR until mid 2018, by which time you have no idea what the APIs will look like - they already exceed Chrome, and there are a lot planned. Hijacking almost every Firefox article on here to rant like a lunatic at everyone just makes you look like a fool now. I think I speak for almost everyone here - just STFU if you can't stick to the topic."

        Mozilla is great, awesome, stupendous yadda yadda yadda... It almost seems like he is working for them. Needless to say, in his mind others are just idiots and lunatics for failing to see the sheer greatness of (future) Mozilla - and should be silenced.

        And this:

        > You are using circular reasoning and shifting the burden of proof, not to mention adhominem attacks. Apparently I'm an apologist and the move from Mozilla is already proven to be anti-privacy.

        Ridiculous, really.

        Pan(t)sy's reasoning: "Collecting user data is of course done to protect privacy. Feel free to disprove it... Saying the unreasonable as a last line of defense doesn't make me look like an apologist."

        :D :D :D

      • ShintoPlasm August 23, 2017 at 7:58 pm #

        @A nore nee merse, Tom and Appster: isn't Pants a she? :)

        Also, not quite getting where this torrent of bile is coming from. I thought Sören was usually the target for this kind of anger and resentment (though I disprove of that as well)... Pants (and Sören) both contribute significantly to the benefit of Firefox users. Whilst many of us don't like some of Mozilla's decisions, what's the point of attacking two people who do not have any say in what Mozilla does? There are arguments pro and contra this new data collection, but I believe we're all sufficiently grown up here to be able to present our views without going for the easy ad hominems.

      • Appster August 23, 2017 at 8:39 pm #

        @ShintoPlasm:

        > isn't Pants a she? :)

        Annoying regardless of gender.

        > Also, not quite getting where this torrent of bile is coming from.

        It stems from those guys being unreasonable, defending even the worst of Mozilla's decisions. It's called apologism.

        > I thought Sören was usually the target for this kind of anger and resentment (though I disprove of that as well)...

        You may disapprove, but this doesn't make his apologism any less annoying. He basically provokes those reactions.

        > Pants (and Sören) both contribute significantly to the benefit of Firefox users.

        Didn't notice so far. How many of the roughly 80 million users have even heard of them? 0,1%?

        > Whilst many of us don't like some of Mozilla's decisions, what's the point of attacking two people who do not have any say in what Mozilla does?

        Reactions stemming from provocations should be expected to some degree.

        > There are arguments pro and contra this new data collection, but I believe we're all sufficiently grown up here to be able to present our views without going for the easy ad hominems.

        Would really like to hear some "Pro" arguments. Collecting the browsing history of users does not improve the product in any way. Only thing it is good for is data trading. Regarding the ad hominems... Sure, I could talk to those guys in a matter-of-fact way. But why would I? Those guys don't shy away from using easy ad hominems as well (read Pan(t)sy's paragraph again), so... What goes around comes around.

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 6:40 am #

        >It stems from those guys being unreasonable, defending even the worst of Mozilla's decisions. It's called apologism.

        Look who's talking. You sound like a petulant child most of the time. "Where's my favorite plug-in. My life depends on that plug-in" and all your absolutist nonsense.

        >You may disapprove, but this doesn't make his apologism any less annoying. He basically provokes those reactions.

        Well if you were man-enough, you'd back away and accept these changes. Why don't you be a shining example to all of us on how not to behave.

        They aren't going to change because you stammer your feet all the time making demands on a browser you never paid for.

        >Didn't notice so far. How many of the roughly 80 million users have even heard of them? 0,1%?

        But you have. What have you contributed here besides bile and vindictiveness?

        >Collecting the browsing history of users does not improve the product in any way. Only thing it is good for is data trading.

        And who are they trading data with? If you want absolute secrecy then use Tor.

        Whatsa matter? Tor not working out for you? Vivaldi not working out for you? Pale Moon not working out for you? Sounds like nothing will make you happy.

        whaaaa...whaaaa....whaaaaa...

        >Regarding the ad hominems... Sure, I could talk to those guys in a matter-of-fact way. But why would I? Those guys don't shy away from using easy ad hominems as well (read Pan(t)sy's paragraph again), so... What goes around comes around.

        You invite it, that's why. You are butting heads with things you can't change and blaming the people here for what they have no control over, isn't going to get Mozilla to change. Get over it.

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 8:39 am #

        @wwwanker:

        > Look who's talking. You sound like a petulant child most of the time. "Where's my favorite plug-in. My life depends on that plug-in" and all your absolutist nonsense.

        LOL, as if Firefox was the only browser I use. Not getting over it would mean that no other browser could potentially work for me. Your brain is so small that apparently there is only room for one browser. Doing what I am doing here is still better than what you do: Investing loads of time to defend corporate bullshit.

        > Well if you were man-enough, you'd back away and accept these changes. Why don't you be a shining example to all of us on how not to behave.

        I tell you what is NOT "man enough": Accepting everything without saying anything. That's pure ignorance and cowardice. You are a shining example for this. You are telling me "Accept Chrome uniformity NOW!" under everything I write, like a lunatic.

        > They aren't going to change because you stammer your feet all the time making demands on a browser you never paid for.

        We pay for this browser with data as it seems. In current times data is worth more than pure gold. And I never believed they would change because of what I say, as I have already explained a thousand times to you. You just ignore what I say because it doesn't fit into your trolling agenda. Only purpose of my writing is to warn users not to trust a data-selling and user-betraying organization.

        > But you have. What have you contributed here besides bile and vindictiveness?

        Difference is that I don't pretend to contribute so much. They do. Secondly, I think that warning users instead of defending corporate bullshit is still a better thing overall.

        > And who are they trading data with? If you want absolute secrecy then use Tor.

        Mozilla is going against their own credo and you are defending that... Pathetic. They already work with Google Analytics, so there is one possible customer already. But naive wwwanker of course assumes that they will just keep those valuable data sets for themselves instead of making huge profits. Hilarious. Again: The browsing history does not help them to make the product any better. It gives no information about how the product performs, or about how the user has customized the product, or similar. It says something about the interests of the user, which is valuable to advertisers. Please explain why Mozilla needs to know my browsing history, then we may talk again.

        > Whatsa matter? Tor not working out for you? Vivaldi not working out for you? Pale Moon not working out for you? Sounds like nothing will make you happy.

        In your small brain there is only room for one browser, LOL. You just assume that Firefox is my only browser. It is not even my main browser, you fool. This suggests that the alternatives are indeed working for me. I'm writing out of principle here, because I fear people still blindly trust Mozilla.

        > whaaaa...whaaaa....whaaaaa...

        Imitating lions or having an orgasm?

        > You invite it, that's why.

        You of course don't. LOL. I can live with idiots answering every time. I am not the one who appears foolish here.

        > You are butting heads with things you can't change and blaming the people here for what they have no control over, isn't going to get Mozilla to change. Get over it.

        I don't blame them for anything happening at Mozilla. I blame them for viciously defending even very bad decisions like this one. Their behavior suggests a lack of realism and too much fanboyism at the same time. But, who am I talking to? You are perhaps the biggest Mozilla fanboy around here, even bigger than a certain Mozilla Representative...

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 10:07 am #

        >Doing what I am doing here is still better than what you do: Investing loads of time to defend corporate bullshit.

        So what ARE you doing here, Crapster? Besides making noise?

        >I tell you what is NOT "man enough": Accepting everything without saying anything. That's pure ignorance and cowardice. You are a shining example for this. You are telling me "Accept Chrome uniformity NOW!" under everything I write, like a lunatic.

        Temper, temper, temper

        tsk..tsk..tsk.. lol

        >Only purpose of my writing is to warn users not to trust a data-selling and user-betraying organization.

        Cry Me A River whaaaa….

        Here’s the thing, Crapster. They don’t owe you or me anything. It's only a browser. They didn't attack your mother, ya know. Why don’t you calm down and stop being hysterical about it.

        Besides, you really have no other alternatives, now do you? Except threatening to leave all the time.

        So leave. What are you waiting for? Just don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

        >Difference is that I don't pretend to contribute so much. They do. Secondly, I think that warning users instead of defending corporate bullshit is still a better thing overall.

        Oh Mr. Crusade. Going to save us all from the big bad corporation. lol

        Mozilla’s ranking is puny compared with Google, Micro$oft or Apple’s. They could be gobbled up at any time by somebody else. Then you’ll have to rail against the replacement. And because they made some changes and didn’t kiss your personal ass, they are the devil incarnate.

        Seek help for your obsession, my friend. Seriously.

        >In your small brain there is only room for one browser, LOL.

        Thing is, you’re not really laughing. You’re pissed because some people oppose your Don Quixote crusade saving us all in the browser world. And no matter how much you hide it, it shows.

        >Imitating lions or having an orgasm?

        No, that’s you crybabying in the distance. whaaaa….whaaaa….whaaaa…. goes the Crapster.

        >You are perhaps the biggest Mozilla fanboy around here, even bigger than a certain Mozilla Representative...

        I’m looking for a job there. Know who I can send my resume to?

        lol…

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 11:23 am #

        @wwwanker:

        > So what ARE you doing here, Crapster? Besides making noise?

        I could ask you the same, really.

        > Temper, temper, temper tsk..tsk..tsk.. lol

        Corporate shill doesn't know what to say anymore. Hence those noises.

        > Cry Me A River whaaaa….

        You are wanking to this tune just now, as it seems.

        > Here’s the thing, Crapster.

        Crapster? Is this the best you've got?

        > They don’t owe you or me anything. It's only a browser.

        They advertised it as providing customization and privacy. They were deceiving their users if they now change course completely. This browser shouldn't even be named Firefox if they don't want to be perceived as liars.

        > They didn't attack your mother, ya know. Why don’t you calm down and stop being hysterical about it.

        I am not even appalled so much. It's naive Pro-Mozilla trolls like you still causing me to write here. Again: How to explain a dumb person that he/she is dumb? That can take ages, with low likelihood of success.

        > Besides, you really have no other alternatives, now do you? Except threatening to leave all the time.

        I have. Which doesn't mean that Mozilla is not deceiving its users. What I use and what Mozilla does is not even related.

        > So leave. What are you waiting for? Just don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

        Your "leave" and "accept" BS is essentially meaning: "Shut up so that Pro-Mozilla trolls like I am one don't face opposition anymore!" Not gonna happen.

        > Oh Mr. Crusade. Going to save us all from the big bad corporation. lol

        Must be hard to understand for Pro-Mozilla shills/trolls.

        > Mozilla’s ranking is puny compared with Google, Micro$oft or Apple’s. They could be gobbled up at any time by somebody else. Then you’ll have to rail against the replacement. And because they made some changes and didn’t kiss your personal ass, they are the devil incarnate.

        Mozilla still provides a major browser, so they have the potential to sell huge amount of data to interested parties. Yet of course, in your small brain, it has to be just about *me*.

        > Seek help for your obsession, my friend. Seriously.

        Says the guy who responds every single time to everything I write. This amounts to similar amounts of text. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

        > Thing is, you’re not really laughing.

        How do you know? :D Don't you think your pathetic attempts to discredit me are funny? You're wrong.

        > You’re pissed because some people oppose your Don Quixote crusade saving us all in the browser world.

        And this some people means... only *you* at the moment. Even Pants is partially agreeing with me. The other comments basically agree. And really, what you think or believe would not really concern me, were it not for your annoying responses.

        > And no matter how much you hide it, it shows.

        As you’d say: whaaaa... whaaaa... whaaaa...

        > No, that’s you crybabying in the distance. whaaaa….whaaaa….whaaaa…. goes the Crapster.

        Still sounds like orgasm on your part to me.

        > I’m looking for a job there. Know who I can send my resume to? lol…

        What does your resume consist of? Trolled others 24/7/365?

        ---

        By the way… You omitting this question should tell others all they need to know about you:

        „Please explain why Mozilla needs to know my browsing history, then we may talk again.“

      • www.com August 25, 2017 at 3:08 am #

        >I could ask you the same, really.

        Answer the question, Crapster.

        >Corporate shill doesn't know what to say anymore. Hence those noises.

        Watching you get hysterical. You’re a funny little man.

        >They advertised it as providing customization and privacy. They were deceiving their users if they now change course completely. This browser shouldn't even be named Firefox if they don't want to be perceived as liars.

        Poor baby. That’s their decision. Not yours. Nobody’s forcing you to use it, ya know.

        Oh that’s right. You’re too dumb to know that. lol-

        >I have. Which doesn't mean that Mozilla is not deceiving its users. What I use and what Mozilla does is not even related.

        No, you don’t have any alternatives. If you did (like any sensible person would) you would’ve moved on. But who says you’re sensible. You’re just a pussy who likes to whine all the time.

        >Mozilla still provides a major browser, so they have the potential to sell huge amount of data to interested parties. Yet of course, in your small brain, it has to be just about *me*.

        Which you can opt out and turn off through about:config

        >Says the guy who responds every single time to everything I write. This amounts to similar amounts of text. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

        Says the guy who responds every single time to everything I write. This amounts to similar amounts of text. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

        >And really, what you think or believe would not really concern me, were it not for your annoying responses.

        If it doesn’t concern you then why are you responding? Why are you a hypocrite?

        >As you’d say: whaaaa... whaaaa... whaaaa...

        Baby Crapster whines… whaaaa….whaaaa….whaaaa….

        >What does your resume consist of? Trolled others 24/7/365?

        Nope, only trolled you for annoying others. It’s fun watching you squirm, especially when the deck is stacked against you.

        But you asked for it.

        >Please explain why Mozilla needs to know my browsing history, then we may talk again

        You are a special case. A space case they need to know about. lol

      • Appster August 25, 2017 at 9:53 am #

        @wwwanker:

        > Answer the question, Crapster.

        Answer mine, wwwanker.

        > Watching you get hysterical. You’re a funny little man.

        Yep, totally hysterical. If hysterical means the same as laughing my ass off about you over here.

        > Poor baby. That’s their decision. Not yours. Nobody’s forcing you to use it, ya know.

        It's their decision. And??? They are still liars. Due to your very small brain, you still didn't get that I'm not even talking just about *me*, but about the millions of users involved in this privacy scandal. If all these people jump ship Mozilla will have exactly one user left, who obviously doesn't give a shit about privacy: You. Oh and maybe a certain Mozilla Representative, too, but that's another story entirely.

        > Oh that’s right. You’re too dumb to know that. lol-

        Dumb guy assuming that others are just as dumb as himself. Pathetic.

        > No, you don’t have any alternatives. If you did (like any sensible person would) you would’ve moved on. But who says you’re sensible. You’re just a pussy who likes to whine all the time.

        Yep, *me* moving on is totally going to solve a privacy scandal *millions of users* are affected by. Seriously, get real. Yeah, I know... critics are whiners, pussies and what not. This is coming from a Pro-Mozilla TROLL, so do you really think I care? I just respond to you to show others how dumb you really are.

        > Which you can opt out and turn off through about:config

        But then, why is Mozilla advertising Firefox as a privacy-protecting browser? The defaults are not configured that way, like it or not. Millions of people - me excluded - have to rely on the defaults. Good luck making something positive out of that, you fool. Just answer this question: Why don't they make the defaults more privacy-respecting?

        > Says the guy who responds every single time to everything I write. This amounts to similar amounts of text. Maybe you should follow your own advice.

        Copy and Paste. Great proof of your intellectual abilities.

        > If it doesn’t concern you then why are you responding? Why are you a hypocrite?

        As mentioned previously, I just respond to show others how dumb you are. Has worked great so far. You really prove yourself worthy of the troll olympus.

        > Baby Crapster whines… whaaaa….whaaaa….whaaaa….

        Still not finished jerking off? Sounds that way.

        > Nope, only trolled you for annoying others. It’s fun watching you squirm,

        I think you're delusional at this point. By now every single reader should know about your low intelligence level. You really think that you're aggravating me, when in fact I just find it funny to expose you as a troll/shill.

        > especially when the deck is stacked against you.

        Yeah, because the other comments totally support you. Are you mad or something?

        > But you asked for it.

        Yep, I totally asked for - exactly - one idiot responding to me every single time.

        > You are a special case. A space case they need to know about. lol

        Ah, I see. Now that this ad hominem stuff is out of the way, care to explain why they need to know the browsing history of millions of other people?

    • Pants August 24, 2017 at 11:55 am #

      > Even Pants is partially agreeing with me

      Please leave me out of this, thanks. I have never agreed or disagreed with anything to do with widespread generalized sweeping statements, and especially not the politics of all this. I have, and always have had, my own views on each specific change, and I like to deal in facts and detail.

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 12:28 pm #

        As you wish. Your response down below didn't suggest that you're happy about this data collection, nor did it suggest that you know exactly for which purpose (not how... why) they collect data, though.

  22. Xibula August 22, 2017 at 11:01 pm #

    Firefox is great again and.... it's gone

  23. Mark Hazard August 22, 2017 at 11:55 pm #

    If this makes it to FF ESR 52, I will be going to the Epic browser. I installed it yesterday.
    I don't believe all this BS about "anonymous" data.

  24. dark August 23, 2017 at 12:22 am #

    If Mozilla is going to remove opt-out, Mozilla should release power user version of Firefox that won't have this data collection nonsense inbuilt for privacy minded users,if not, RIP firefox.

  25. Moana August 23, 2017 at 2:02 am #

    They’re delusional if they think people use firefox if it wasn’t for the privacy.

    I guess they don’t care about their market share, or are delusional in why they have it, or are willing to gamble it all away for… madness.

    Why does mozilla need that data?

  26. Anonymous August 23, 2017 at 2:56 am #

    To be frank I thought it was already the case. All that smiling and childish pets around the new browser to caress you, to put you in confidence, while behind we are working to collect data with a company regularly warned or condamned for having broken privacy law, antitrust law, not respecting copyright, practicing immoral tax optimization, etc. Do not be worried people, this is an "opensource project".

    Signé: un ami qui vous veut du bien.

  27. HAHAHA August 23, 2017 at 3:59 am #

    "which top sites are users visiting", "which sites using Flash does a user encounter", and "which sites does a user see heavy Jank on".......

    These are the most ridiculous excuses/B.S. to collect user data.

  28. Rush August 23, 2017 at 4:59 am #

    My computer knowledge is intermediate, I can fix family, friends computers in a jif...intermediate class
    of knowledge, simply means, that I know how to problem solve, in other words, I know where to look,
    it's called the internet.

    Those that call me for help with their computer woes, because they don't know how to look for help online, I will
    refer to as sheep. (I don't mean that as derogatory.) Telemetry, as presented to the sheep, IMO represents about 80% of the world population, that would be a guess.
    For this flock...data send is simply, an innocuous event...they don't care, nor give a damn. Their feelings of personal, outgoing user data...is more than likely....meh...whatever, do with it what you will, just don't mess with their fb, twitter, or personal private bookmarks, or whatever.

    My point..........

    I am extremely disappointed in our friendly open source FF browser..it has become too corporate clean, in a dirty way...

    Some of you could easily say to me..."Okay wise guy...what do you mean...can you be specific?"...well, I can't.
    My self admitted intermediacy gets in my way....my gut does a decent job fulfilling digesting priorities..but is
    absolutely horrible at specifics.

    Between Firefox.exe, flash, plug-in container......God knows what else....accessing YOUR computer for THEIR use of your CPU, RAM, and Network. And as I observe, via resource manager, I watch in real-time.as data is sent to .....?????????? I unplug adblock as a courtesy for Mr. Brinkman's site, maybe that accounts for just a tiny bit...but, not enough to make it a problem.

    No sooner than the planets align and a user get a program that is a big win for them, and fits your system like a warm glove on a winter's day, for it works like a charm, all the pieces connect like a jigsaw puzzle...than boom,
    like a horse led to slaughter, the refrigerator which has been pretty cool all along, is unplugged, the jello is no
    longer jig'lin. Here comes the buy-out, or investor infusion, or some board has figured out how to increase stock values, to encourage more inve$tment...because stockholders are no longer, if price per share doesn't increase.

    AS I don't like it....All of Microsoft is the stage....and programs and apps are merely the players...and the users...
    Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms. The computer age.........yay....has turned into a
    disappointment, but here I am, stuck...play the game.....or......

    • Anonymous August 23, 2017 at 10:27 pm #

      Just FYI, if this data collection thing happens you will be able to opt out, you know like when you first create a profile there's a pop up about telemetry that makes sure you can't miss the need and the means to opt out.

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 6:46 am #

        I'm afraid all that will fall on deaf ears. The luddites just have a new excuse to whine and complain.

        The sooner they move on to a new browser and get over it, the better.

        whaaaaa....whaaaaa....whaaaaa....

      • AnorKnee Merce August 24, 2017 at 10:33 am #

        @ Anonymous

        "Mozilla has yet to reveal how users may opt-out of the study. We will update the article as soon as this is revealed by the company.

        Closing Words

        One objection that Firefox users had who replied to the post on Google Groups or elsewhere was that making the feature opt-out was anti-privacy no matter if the data that is collected cannot be traced back to a single user.

        Others stated that Mozilla could (obtain) some of the data otherwise, for instance by crawling sites to check if they still make use of Flash, or by using services to retrieve information on the top sites on the Web."
        _ _ _ _ _ _ _

        At the point of Telemetry & Data collection, the data may be anonymous. But there are various ways for the tech companies to de-anonymize the collected data later on by identifying or personal-ID'ing the data's web-fingerprint.
        ....... So, it is mostly legal-speak and PR(= marketing-speak) for tech companies to say that the private data collected are anonymous. Ask yourself, how come the tech companies like Google are able to serve you targeted or personalized ads when you browse the Internet or run Win 10.?

        Tech companies collect millions of customers' data to sell to marketers and ad companies. The data have to be categorized and personalized in order for the data buyers to make use of the data. If need be, the data can be ID'ed to a single user/person.

        The FBI/CIA/NSA can summon tech companies to furnish the personal data of a suspected offender who had browsed the Internet. How did the tech companies abide by the US government summon if they could not ID the collected data.?

        Don't be naive and clueless.

      • Anonymous August 24, 2017 at 5:13 pm #

        " But there are various ways for the tech companies to de-anonymize the collected data later on by identifying or personal-ID'ing the data's web-fingerprint. "

        You should really write a PhD about it then because as it is, no-one knows. It's akin to a strong encryption except much simpler to implement and therefore implementation is much less prone to error.

        Of course, nothing is ever 100% secure.

  29. Norm August 23, 2017 at 5:15 am #

    Sometimes I feel like The Little Dutch Boy.

  30. Yoav August 23, 2017 at 6:55 am #

    Considering that Mozilla hasn't given a *!**/?*! about its user base for several years, I doubt they'll be using this data for our benefit.

  31. Moana back with solution August 23, 2017 at 7:55 am #

    Since my earlier post, i’ve thought it through and finally decided to give up firefox. Profile deleted. It wasn’t a snap decision, i strongly prefer the webkit renderer for text fonts, and firefox has for a long time now been a laggard in performance.

    Here’s my new solution:

    - Use opera (webkit vendor not the devil) with basic extensions.
    - Base opera is the authenticated state, it is used like an appliance on a fixed set of sites, trello, reddit etc.
    - The major privacy offenders are isolated to another browser (safari for mac and ie for windows, ie, gmail and hotmail, if you use facebook etc). Nothing happens at all on that browser except those sites.
    - All searching and browsing of trashy sites is done, 100% in private windows, cleaned on close.

    Instead of missing self destructing cookies or having personal standards eroded by mozilla, a change in safe browsing behavior might be better. I can’t think of any holes in this model so far, would be glad to hear them. Id be glad to know if local storage is also isolated in private windows, cookies definitely are, but could be a hole.

    Also if an author here picks this up and runs with it for the greater good do it!

    • www.com August 24, 2017 at 6:48 am #

      Sure, and China and the PLA will track you and profile you and sell your information to 3rd parties as well. They really have your best interests at heart. /s

  32. ekinox August 23, 2017 at 8:16 am #

    mozilla is on the way to being like microsoft and google.
    do you have any suggestion for alternative to FF?

  33. Ben August 23, 2017 at 9:10 am #

    > While Firefox may collect the data when users opt-in, Mozilla believes that the data is biased ...

    Yeah, what a surprise. This is also why their report on how many percent of people use addons is flawed.

    • Anonymous August 24, 2017 at 5:18 pm #

      According to you the actual percent is therefore lower than announced. The opt-in crew is skewed towards people willing to help and knowing what's up, so more likely to use multiple add-ons.

      I don't care because either way, a truckload amount of people have at least one add-on installed. It doesn't matter if it's a monster truck or a regular truck.

  34. rawr August 23, 2017 at 9:37 am #

    Farewell firefox, hello chromium.

  35. mike August 23, 2017 at 11:59 am #

    Hello Waterfox.

    No telemetry, no profiling, no data collection, legacy addon support and associated repo.

    • msel August 23, 2017 at 12:07 pm #

      ... or Pale Moon since yesterday in version 27.4.2

    • FrancisT August 23, 2017 at 2:12 pm #

      Almost sounds too good to be true. Where is the drawback ??? They're certainly are not doing it out of goodness.

    • www.com August 24, 2017 at 6:52 am #

      >Almost sounds too good to be true. Where is the drawback ??? They're certainly are not doing it out of goodness

      You know the old saying, if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I'm very skeptical if Waterfox will be around in the next two years or so.

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 9:57 am #

        @www.com: Jumping to conclusions as always. Everbody can review the Waterfox source code on GitHub. There are no drawbacks. It's just a project of one (very talented) guy who felt the need to strip the bullshit from Firefox. End of story.

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 10:09 am #

        @Appster, I hope you are waiting in line to pick up where he leaves off.

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 10:34 am #

        @www.com:

        > "where he leaves off."

        More assumptions out of nowhere. Maybe Mozilla is going the way of the dodo way before that. Who knows. In your new shiny crystal ball you already see Alex quitting. :D

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 11:49 am #

        Put your money where your mouth is, Appster. Go help old Alex out. If you impress him enough, you can be your own one-man show.

        Just think, you'll be a star, saving us all from that huge 'evil' Mozilla empire that you so desperately fear. Those 150 users will sure thank you for it.

        lol...

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 12:18 pm #

        @wwwanker:

        > Put your money where your mouth is, Appster. Go help old Alex out. If you impress him enough, you can be your own one-man show.

        I'll be sure to quote this in a few years, when Mozilla will only have a niche browser out there. Then I'll ask you to join them in their effort to elevate Firefox to former greatness.

        > Just think, you'll be a star, saving us all from that huge 'evil' Mozilla empire that you so desperately fear. Those 150 users will sure thank you for it.

        It's 6 million downloads actually. Yes, Mozilla ain't the good guys anymore. Quite surprised that you came to this conclusion. And no, it's not on me to save a sinking ship. You may try as well. Or your neighbor... Or your boss... Oh, I forgot: Isn't Mozilla your employer?

      • www.com August 25, 2017 at 3:15 am #

        >I'll be sure to quote this in a few years, when Mozilla will only have a niche browser out there. Then I'll ask you to join them in their effort to elevate Firefox to former greatness.

        Don't really care. I'm under no illusion that Firefox will ever equal Chrome's marketshare, let alone IE's. Not an issue with me.

        >It's 6 million downloads actually.

        6 million downloads doesn't mean 6 million users. If you don't know the difference then you're too dumb to be into computing.

        >Yes, Mozilla ain't the good guys anymore.

        Not my conclusion. Only projecting your own obsession back at ya.

        >Oh, I forgot: Isn't Mozilla your employer?

        I’m looking for a job there. Know who I can send my resume to?

        lol

      • Appster August 25, 2017 at 9:19 am #

        @wwwanker:

        > Don't really care. I'm under no illusion that Firefox will ever equal Chrome's marketshare, let alone IE's. Not an issue with me.

        But then, you are still blubbering nonsense when it comes to niche browsers (in which category Firefox will soon fall). More hypocrisy on your part.

        > 6 million downloads doesn't mean 6 million users. If you don't know the difference then you're too dumb to be into computing.

        The 6 million downloads number suggests way more than 150 users, which is the ridiculous number you came up with in order to bash the product. Seems like you were wrong. Even if Waterfox had 100.000 users you'd be wrong. That's not even the point. Everybody knows the difference between downloads and users. Still wwwanker feels the need to lecture me about it.

        > Not my conclusion. Only projecting your own obsession back at ya.

        Can't be your conclusion obviously, since you are a corporate shill defending bad decisions.

        > I’m looking for a job there. Know who I can send my resume to? lol

        Your resume consists of "Trolled others 24/7/365."... That's it. Not too impressive. But then, when Mozilla becomes desperate enough to employ trolls they for sure can count on you.

    • www.com August 24, 2017 at 7:02 am #

      >Hello Waterfox.

      No telemetry, no profiling, no data collection, legacy addon support and associated repo.

      A one-man-shop. What if he quits or dies? You gonna take over?

      • George August 24, 2017 at 9:44 am #

        You know... it's far more probable for Firefox to die way before the Waterfox/Pale Moon guys. Actually, it seems it's exactly what Mozilla is after. What are *you* going to do then? :D

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 10:12 am #

        Well @George, then I move on. Yes, I'll be disappointed, but it's only a browser. It's not the end of the universe.

        Relying on one-man-shops doesn't inspire confidence at all. A slender thread, in my view.

  36. Appster August 23, 2017 at 4:18 pm #

    I told you so. Mozilla doesn't give a shit about privacy anymore. All those idiots who argued against that have been proven to be dumb beyond measure. Where are you @www.com, @Sören Hentzschel, @Frodo, @Pants???

    • Neo August 23, 2017 at 10:32 pm #

      Hasn't happened yet, uses differential privacy, and either way it technically doesn't change a thing about Firefox privacy because the privacy beast is born through customization.

      But it hurts image.

      However it's not that bad: You know that pop up when you create a new profile, the thing that makes sure you are aware of telemetry and shown the method to opt-out. Well it should be the same thing if this proposal happens.

      As for privacy features, they are being weaved into the browser as we speak, today more than ever. The potentially web-breaking ones are opt-in others are there for everyone.

      • AnorKnee Merce August 24, 2017 at 10:14 am #

        @ Neo

        Firefox 57 = Chrome.?

      • Neo August 24, 2017 at 7:57 pm #

        That made no sense, but I bet writing it made you happy, so it's good.

    • www.com August 24, 2017 at 6:23 am #

      Awww, did widdle Appster miss me?

      lol...

      What @Neo said. You can turn off a lot of that stuff through customization anyway. People who care about privacy will look into minimizing it like they always have. People who don't care, won't.

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 8:19 am #

        @wwwanker:

        > Awww, did widdle Appster miss me? lol...

        I somehow knew that one of you idiots would respond. And... There you are.

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 9:40 am #

        @CluelessApps

        You still don't know who you're responding to, do you?

        lol...

      • George August 24, 2017 at 9:41 am #

        That sounds reasonable... if you want to waste your time hunting down hidden and not hidden, sneaky under-the-hood settings and disabling them after every Firefox update, instead of actually browsing the Web without having to worry about your browser collecting your data and history. Real user-friendly stuff.

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 9:54 am #

        @wwwanker: ...www.com = wwwanker. Glad that George begins to see you for the unreasonable troll you are. CluelessApps... Is this the best you've got, Troll?

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 10:15 am #

        >if you want to waste your time hunting down hidden and not hidden, sneaky under-the-hood settings and disabling them after every Firefox update, instead of actually browsing the Web without having to worry about your browser collecting your data and history. Real user-friendly stuff.

        It's already been that way for years. That isn't anything new.

        If you really want security and privacy, you'll have to get up off your ass and do some research yourself. At least you have to opportunity (and choice) to be able to do it. Not something you would find with Edge or Chrome.

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 10:40 am #

        > It's already been that way for years. That isn't anything new. If you really want security and privacy, you'll have to get up off your ass and do some research yourself. At least you have to opportunity (and choice) to be able to do it. Not something you would find with Edge or Chrome.

        This basically confirms what I am saying the entire time: Firefox is respecting privacy by default, as Mozilla likes to claim. Anyone here to argue against this, seeing how the biggest Pro-Mozilla troll on gHacks just agreed with me?

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 11:41 am #

        >This basically confirms what I am saying the entire time: Firefox is respecting privacy by default, as Mozilla likes to claim. Anyone here to argue against this, seeing how the biggest Pro-Mozilla troll on gHacks just agreed with me?

        You go in a tweak it to your own heart's desire, Appster. It's been that way since I first starting using it back in 2005. Nothing to do with your puny widdle ego at all.

        about:config - etc...

        Besides, you're supposed to be moving on to a less customizable browser anyway, so what do you care...

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 12:53 pm #

        @wwwanker:

        > You go in a tweak it to your own heart's desire, Appster. It's been that way since I first starting using it back in 2005. Nothing to do with your puny widdle ego at all. about:config - etc...

        Even if you are unable/unwilling to comprehend that: OPT-IN = privacy-friendly, OPT-OUT = privacy-evading.
        End of story. By default, Mozilla doesn't ship a privacy-respecting product. You need to unfuck it first, just like you would in Chrome. But then, it shouldn't be advertised as privacy-respecting.

        As always, in your narrow mind it is just about *me*. It's not like millions of users are affected by the suboptimal defaults. LMAO.

        > Besides, you're supposed to be moving on to a less customizable browser anyway, so what do you care...

        Every day one customization option dies it's party time for wwwanker. It is known.

      • www.com August 25, 2017 at 3:37 am #

        >Even if you are unable/unwilling to comprehend that: OPT-IN = privacy-friendly, OPT-OUT = privacy-evading.

        So opt the fuck out. What are you waiting for?

        >You need to unfuck it first, just like you would in Chrome.

        You can’t even do that in Chrome. It’s about as locked down as IE is.

        Keep grasping at straws. I’m laughing all the way. -lol

      • Appster August 25, 2017 at 7:45 am #

        @wwwanker:

        > So opt the fuck out. What are you waiting for?

        Hahaha, you still (want to) miss the point. Explanation for dumbsters:
        Privacy settings are opt-out means that Mozilla is not interested in protecting privacy BY DEFAULT. 99% of the users don't know what about:config is. So Mozilla can play on the stupidity of their users and collect data like there was no tomorrow.
        Because of your inherent dumbness you still think I'm talking about *me*. *I* will opt-out of course. *The majority* doesn't have the means to opt-out, which is what *I* am criticizing. I hope those stars will help you to understand. Albeit the likelihood is low.

        > You can’t even do that in Chrome. It’s about as locked down as IE is.

        If you really think that, you're dumber than I thought. Ever heard of (ungoogled) Chromium? It's pretty easy to do, provided you know what are doing. Which I doubt in your case.

        > Keep grasping at straws. I’m laughing all the way. -lol

        You really think you're gonna win an argument against me. That's the real joke. You being dumb enough to believe that. Actually almost nobody here is supporting you. This should tell you something. So many people are against this, only the corporate wwwanker defends it... Maybe those other 80 comments are my sock puppets, too. LMAO.

    • Caderyn Kalnutkar August 24, 2017 at 7:06 pm #

      Mozilla... Became like Google infested by social justice warriors.

      Which leads to one thing: An amendment directed backwards. Make all simple and stupid - remove everything unique and special. Almost everyone who loved customization, features, choice, options has moved on from Mozilla in the meantime. User wise seen and developer wise seen. What is left are social justice warrior developers and social justice warrior users - a fitting match if you look over at Google (Chrome) and a fitting match if you look over at Mozilla.

      Whoever has a wish for more or is not in line with hardcore political correctness has no place, neither as developer or user!

      This development is shameful and a disgrace for a developer which has shown tons of years that with the right development team and the right visions and ideologies you can create something awesome.

      Replace that awesome team by some radical ideologists who want conformity and equality instead of uniqueness, and what do you get.. Mozilla of today and Google!

      Also....

      @www.com: congratulations, you earn for your dedication to Mozilla's slight fascist tendencies a Darwin award. So does Mozilla too :P

      Glad that i am not using Firefox anymore, if i see what for a kind of user base Mozilla is collecting and valuing these days! Just.. nauseating!

      • www.com August 25, 2017 at 3:39 am #

        >@www.com: congratulations, you earn for your dedication to Mozilla's slight fascist tendencies a Darwin award. So does Mozilla too :P

        Ah, Crapster’s new sock puppet. Where did he dreg you up from? Mozillazine.org? - -lol

      • Caderyn Kalnutkar August 25, 2017 at 1:03 pm #

        @www.com Bad luck numbnut. I am not Appster. Try again, snowflake :D

        @Martin Brinkmann Could you tell that guy here that me and Appster have IP's not in the same country range? At least that should be possible seen on a legal note without hurting the privacy of a person.

        If you read that thanks very much ;)

    • Jody Thornton August 25, 2017 at 2:26 am #

      @Appster:

      I suppose I was wondering why you see the improvements in the Nightly version of 57 as insignificant (at least compared to the customization issues). Also though, I was interested in your comments on this post from a bit back,

      https://www.ghacks.net/2017/08/09/about-abandoned-firefox-add-ons-breaking/#comment-4220253

      Cheers,
      Jody
      :)

    • Lord Lestat August 27, 2017 at 12:14 pm #

      About Mozilla...

      Embracing lowest common denominator fanatics on the quest to destroy all what makes a software different from the rest.

      *irony on*
      After all, we all are humans, there should not be any difference in any kind of way. All must be stupid, simple - so the most non-skilled user must be able to feel comfortable in his safe technology space without being humiliated by some check-box or general function he/she is unable to understand or in the worst case would be able to humiliate that user as it is not running in line with a not leftist/progressive way. While the software developer takes the chance to limit their software as it is a "trademark you are not allowed to touch or modify in a massive way"
      *irony off*

      All while embracing anti free speech fanatics and decide that only left propaganda is the real truth. Mozilla are seriously fascist-flavored developers today. Running behind their role-model pimp-daddy Google and embracing whatever they spit out..

  37. Takamina August 23, 2017 at 5:01 pm #

    As soon as you move from this browser better for you.

    This is a corporate browser that now steal and bloat your space.

    • leonon August 24, 2017 at 12:12 pm #

      what browser do you recomend then?

      • Anonymous August 24, 2017 at 6:09 pm #

        I suggest Red Panda. Best privacy on the market.

      • Walter Rountree August 24, 2017 at 8:02 pm #

        I use Pale Moon. Go to http://www.moonchildproductions.info/. It is based on an earlier Firefox version and is customizable. The addons I use for privacy are Bluehell Firewall, BetterPrivacy, Disconnect, NoScript, and uBlock Origin. Some say they interfere with each other. I don't find that. I find Remove It Permanently helpful in removing the tracking bugs from Facebook, etc. that are found on most websites.

  38. TelV August 23, 2017 at 6:03 pm #

    @ AnorKnee Merce,

    You recommended that users only uninstall their existing Firefox installation after installing Firefox ESR. According to you this is ensure that user settings, profiles etc., are copied to the new installation.

    However, users settings, profiles etc.,are retained in e separate location to where the browser is installed namely at %APPDATA%\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles

    Therefore uininstalling Firefox 51x before installing the ESR version won't affect the retention of data at tthat location.

    Hope this helps.

    • AnorKnee Merce August 23, 2017 at 7:33 pm #

      @ TeIV

      Even if it makes no difference with the user settings whether you remove Firefox before or after installing Firefox ESR, I personally prefer the after method, just in case the installation of Firefox ESR fails.

  39. Anonymous August 23, 2017 at 9:11 pm #

    I don't see anything wrong with it if it helps make FF a better browser. I don't really have anything to hide from mozilla, and I know they don't really care, they just want to get it right. Avast started doing that when I used Windows and I got kinda skiddish of that. I don't use Chrome so... Palemoon is always a vialble alternative and I use that sometimes to change it out.

    • AnorKnee Merce August 24, 2017 at 10:09 am #

      @ Anonymous

      So, you do not mind gorillas, strangers, utility workers or the FBI/police entering your house at any time because you have nothing to hide from Mozilla or the world.

  40. ABliss August 24, 2017 at 12:03 am #

    Well more telemetry to block with the pi-hole.
    Its like you know https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/manifesto/#principle-04 is, really "hey privacy conscious users, you NEED give us more telemetry!" Its not right IMO..

  41. Ultimate Contradiction August 24, 2017 at 2:29 am #

    This thread is simply hilarious. I'd like to know how many of the posters here are running Windows10?

    • George August 24, 2017 at 9:28 am #

      Let me guess your 'hilarious' reasoning: since Windows 10 collects data, then it's perfectly normal for any program running under Windows 10 to collect even more data? Well it's not.

    • AnorKnee Merce August 24, 2017 at 10:04 am #

      @ Ultimate Contradiction

      As just an ordinary home-user, I was running Win XP and then Win 7 since 2008. Because of the Win 10 spyware, I am now running Linux Mint 17.3. So much better.
      ....... Many others have done the same, ie abandon Win 10 and move to Linux or MacOS.

      Presently, running Firefox 52 ESR. Will likely run another browser eventually. Since Firefox 57 is becoming just like Google Chrome, eg Web Extensions and little privacy, users might as well run Chrome which is much better than what Mozilla can come out with in Firefox 57 or above.

      "Firefox, you are fired".!

  42. Pants August 24, 2017 at 3:17 am #

    I'll just pop this down the bottom since its a bit OT (and someone asked if I was pro Web Extensions up there somewhere, and Appster jumped in etc)

    @Appster

    Dude, I snapped at you ONE TIME. I was totally rude, and I lost the plot. Apologies man. I did not hide behind an "Anonymous" default handle. Many others in that thread did, and they and others were also a bit fed up and voiced their concerns. But I was over the top - I think I was trying to shock or jolt you or something (not sure why I tried to counter argue some of your comments - that was counter-productive). Instead you went super offensive (I almost apologized then but you went totally ballistic even at others with much more reasonable comments than my ONE comment), and that's your right I guess. Its not your opinion that irked me, it was the incessant almost-spam like content at times, spanning months and dozens of articles. One last time, my apologizes. PS: There was one other time 3 or 4 months ago I said you had a "mozilla-hatred hard-on" and you corrected me as only for some aspects of what they do, and I accepted that. Oh yeah, and around 18 months ago I told you and Soren to knock it off.

    As for my position, if you read my comments here or at github, it is essentially this
    - Mozilla/FF have decided to do x, y and z. I can understand (I think) WHY they have done this for most decisions, and these changes have upsides and downsides
    - Some of the changes SUCK, various changes sucking more or less for various people (I totally get that - I'm in the same boat)
    - HOW they implemented these changes SUCKS at times. eg devs porting to e10s, now porting to WE, eg WE APIs not ready in time, eg loss of functionality eg mozilla's responses at times

    ^^ These are all facts.

    My position is that I either go ESR and I can re-assess at EOL for 52.x, or ride the train and see what happens (or I could always use a different main browser). I am riding the train (that's a personal choice, and the ride sure is bumpy to say the least). I have not bagged any other browser - I do not make snide remarks about other people's choices to use PM, or Waterfox etc (maybe I bagged Chrome somewhere, and Vivaldi's privacy state back in beta).

    My priorities are security/privacy first, work flow & methodology second, and looks last. I think there is some misunderstanding here (on my part) when I use the term UI or UX etc. I totally get that the loss of customizing the interface SUCKS for lots of people, but to me it's not a big deal - and by that I mean the "looks". What I am annoyed about is what affects work flow - people losing functionality, such as provided by DTA, TMP, toolbar API, sidebar API, etc etc etc etc. I'm with you guys on that front, but to me it ranks behind security/privacy. I am not as hard hit as a lot of you by this loss of functionality - but it still sucks, and I am still hit by it. I understand the anger and frustration - I'm annoyed too.

    My only real point on this, is that there is an ESR with legacy XUL etc which will serve until EOL 52.x, and who knows what functionality will be brought back into WE APIs by the time 61 lands. This is a fact, it is not an excuse for the SUCKINESS that has happened, it is simply being realistic and practical and planning ahead for those who wish to stay on FF. And that constantly bringing up and repeating what cannot be changed (and the volume of it) doesn't achieve anything per se - it is better re-assessed down the track. I'd rather look forward than backwards, and I tried to say that in my shitty post at Appster, and it was a shitty post.

    Last time: Apologies Appster. When I ignore the "spammy" bits, you do have interesting things to say. Please just tone it down, or take a step back. I actually almost point blank refuse to post comments at times due to the vocality of some people, and lots I just refuse to engage with.

    IF you still think I am a Mozilla shill or "apologist" then that's your opinion/right. Just don't anyone expect me to stay around or contribute if I am constantly being trolled in conversations that have nothing to do with me - I have better things to do with my time.

    • www.com August 24, 2017 at 6:58 am #

      I wouldn't apologize to him. He brings it on himself. He's been told time & time again why these changes are occurring and yet he can't accept them. That's really his problem.

      The debate is humorous at times, I'll grant you that. -lol...

      • Pants August 24, 2017 at 8:23 am #

        No, I want to apologize, not for his behavior, but for mine. I was over the top. I snapped. Its a genuine apology after a week or so for the heat to cool down. Its not helping anyone. Never had an issue before or since, and the large copypasta seems to have stopped.

        I don't condone everything he does, but I also do not wish to be a source of it. Like I said, I do not mind his opinion, and I won't ever bother to present an alternative side to his views for him to consider - but he's entitled to them. It was just what I call the "spammy" incessant voluminous nature of it all got to me (and others). I'd rather we both act like adults and shut that shit down, or I'll just go. If the hatred/vitriol/trolling (from a number of people) can be dispensed with, then people might engage more. I know I for one do not bother half the time, even to help people with technical details.

        I'll see what Appster's response is. Otherwise it'll be like "There was this ONE TIME, at ghacks camp ... "

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 8:52 am #

        @wwwanker:

        > I wouldn't apologize to him. He brings it on himself.

        Same here.

        > He's been told time & time again why these changes are occurring and yet he can't accept them.

        No, I've never been told. Please explain to me! Note that Chrome parity and some microscopic performance gains don't count as reasons! By the way, the concept of acceptance is not really require to like a change. You just live with this change, that's all. This is not suggesting bad or good feelings towards the change. The "acceptance" you expect from me is to silence and never comment again. Not gonna happen.

        > That's really his problem.

        You seem have greater problems than me, since I have to read your BS under everything I write. My comments seem to attract you more than shit does flies.

        > The debate is humorous at times, I'll grant you that. -lol...

        I don't find it that humorous to debate with ignorants who believe that exchanging a more powerful system for a less powerful one is the best invention since sliced bread. How to explain a dumb person that he/she is dumb?

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 9:38 am #

        As you can see, @Appster doesn't know where in the conversation tree he is. Is he responding to me, @Pants or @wwwanker?

        I'm glad to see he's flustered by all this.

        lol...

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 10:26 am #

        @Pants: I apologize as well (to you, not to this 'www.com guy, he is beyond apologies). What really annoys me is how people can still argue in favor of Mozilla when articles like this clearly prove where they are heading to. They clearly are not the user-friendly little project we knew anymore. Rather, with their importance being greatly diminished, they are trying to monetize the hell out of Firefox. Moonchild of the Pale Moon project actually overheard a Mozilla employee saying that they were already in search for the next big thing AFTER Firefox. The suggestion is here is that they know Firefox is on its way out. They just want to monetize at this point. Privacy and customization can wait.

        Even if you are a privacy-first guy as you say, changes like this should really concern you deeply. Mozilla doesn't care about people like you anymore, obviously. This is why unreasonable sentences like this are beyond me:

        > You are using circular reasoning and shifting the burden of proof, not to mention adhominem attacks. Apparently I'm an apologist and the move from Mozilla is already proven to be anti-privacy.

        Seriously, for what are they collecting the browsing history? Please explain! Your extremely defensive attitude here seems like apologism to me. I understand that to some degree, as you have clearly invested a lot of time into Firefox. This of course leads to you valuing the product. However, this particular sentence is not reasonable anymore.

        Especially since Mozilla doesn't allow WebExtensions to access "about:" pages for no apparent reason. They basically could do privacy-evading things there, and no WebExtension will have the means to stop it. Tom Hawack and I wondered about that stance quite a bit already.

        You really should come to the realization that Mozilla is drifting into areas occupied by Google before. They are going to misuse their browser as a political tool by implementing MITI. Even as an apolitical person (like I am one in general) this should concern you. I don't want to get my information filtered. I really don't.

        That being said, again, I apologize for the name-calling. However, your comment was really offensive and justified my response to some degree. I am not a "lunatic" for raising concerns about where Mozilla is heading to. I just want people not to blindly trust those guys, for reasons. I see no wrong therein. My comments sometimes repeat themselves (which is annoying even to me), because unreasonable people like 'www.com never tire to insult and attack me. Not that they are very successful in this regard, but still... I'm actually against name-calling. Once Tom Hawack called Chris Ajoudi a "parasite" for keeping the uBlock Origin domain Raymond Hill gave to him. Since Chris has been attacked for this before, driving him into misery, I fiercely opposed such behavior. Some insults targeted at Chris (not by Tom, but by others) even went so far to denounce him for his jewish faith, which I find utterly disgusting.

        So you see, actually I am not a supporter of ad hominem stuff. However, when people like you choose to follow this path they will receive a fitting response. Again, if you apologize like that I see no reason why I wouldn't apologize. Sorry, pal.

      • Pants August 24, 2017 at 11:20 am #

        @Appster, Apology accepted dude. I didn't expect or even want an apology from you, a "ceasefire" or some understanding would have sufficed, so thanks.

        I do not want to get into semantics, and that's what a lot of this is about IMO. As Tom said way way up there somewhere - I am fist and foremost privacy/security, in a pragmatic dogged way - nothing else really matters to me. I especially don't care about the politics etc, only about the tools in front of me. And I agree with some things, and disagree with others. Not everyone has to have the same views on all aspects, and it grates a little with wide sweeping statements - I have absolutely bitched about FF's telemetry etc - go look at the github repo. I like the prospect of a faster more secure browser, but I also hate that I will lose some stuff. etc.

        > You are using circular reasoning [and shifting the burden of proof, not to mention adhominem attacks. Apparently I'm an apologist] and the move from Mozilla is already proven to be anti-privacy.

        The "you" in that is not you Appster. You asked me to explain this. So I'll try. Ignore the bit in brackets, the point was that the original question was a loaded question. A better question would be impartial, neither for nor against, but instead ask "how can be make sure this is even needed, and if so, that it really is opt in and totally anonymized?" - something like that.

        "the move" being a discussion and likely collection (opt-in) of domains visited by a small experimental set of users via shield-recipe, said data to be anonymized, using third party open source code called RAPPOR (developed by google, but can be hosted anywhere) that creates noise etc in order to achieve differential privacy.

        I like to deal in facts. To me, there is nothing alarming in all of this at face value. Please bear with me, I have some downsides/questions to follow. They are open about this and its a discussion at this stage (will they listen is not worth debating). Its opt-in AFAIK (not sure when or where) and would respect current telemetry settings. It's not baked in, its a shield-study, which is experimental. The reason (from a stats perspective) of using a wider base is reasonable. What they want to collect even, on the face of it is reasonable for the purpose it would be used for. The data would only be eTLDs, and a counter. These are all good signs so far. Look, I absolutely hate the Follow-On Search (and I advocate killing it, as well as shield, and telemetry), Follow on search **IS** about money revenue from search engine deals (and I found the bugzilla ticket and raised a bitch almost 2 months ago) - but even for that I can understand their reasons, and they are open about it.

        The only difference I see here really is, like Follow On Search, its starting to collect meta-data that isn't really about the browser. Follow On Search is about revenue, but this one would be for speed/stability/anti-jank on top FF user sites to get the best value for their engineering time for end users. Still, it's unsettling to hear scary words like "Mozilla collecting your browsing habits!!". But if it's truly anonymized and opt-in and fully disclosed, and a random experimental small percentage, and no issues over 3rd party access anywhere along the chain (from browser-differential privacy data set) and Mozilla would be bankrupted instantly by Satan if they ever sold any of it (by that I mean they break their privacy statements etc, I don't really care about the politics) .. then I have no issues with it. THAT SAID ... will I have it on my PC, fuck no.

        Check it out: https://github.com/ghacksuserjs/ghacks-user.js/issues/219

        Do I know the answers to these questions. No, not yet. Will I let it rest, hell no! It just needs to be vetted, that's all. At this stage. If it keeps happening, as long as I can kill it, I'm doing my job. If it gets to the stage where it cannot be stopped, then I will scream blue murder.

        Sorry for the long post. I'm not going to comment in this article again, because it's outta control.

      • Frodo August 24, 2017 at 5:58 pm #

        @Pants:

        It's opt-out as far as I know, where have you seen that it was opt-in ?
        However, from the Mozilla person who reported this project:

        "if users turn off data sharing through the preferences, we will not submit
        this data. Firefox will always respect the users choice."

        This is the preference associated with the privacy pop up that all users get when they create a new profile right ? Sounds like it is but I wanted to make sure, my Firefox isn't in English.

        For people who chose not to opt-out ("chose" because with the pop up, it can be argued that it is pretty close to a deliberate choice), we also have to evaluate what Mozilla needs to do:

        - Use differential privacy - essentially we can't trace back to a person even by crossing data, at least not with current scientific knowledge

        - Limit what is being collected as much as possible in case a hole is found in RAPPOR's implementation in the future

        - Use secure servers and strong encryption

        - Use the data only to answer product questions to help developers keep Firefox technically competitive and fight web compatibility issues resulting from Chrome nearing monopoly

        - Delete data after a year tops. You can aggregate it further before deletion; if it's aggregated enough it can be kept forever because it has nothing to do with individuals any more, it's just generic statistics.

        - Make triple sure the opt-out cannot be missed and is very easy. A bit like site permissions are, can't miss it, know what it means, easy to control. The current opt-out is good IMO but could always be improved further, it can't hurt.

        If these conditions are met, with maybe some few more I'm not thinking of right now, this is a decent middle ground for users who chose not to opt-out.

        Other users are unaffected. Looking forward to the currently-being-developed privacy features reaching the bulk of users through the UI.

  43. AAA August 24, 2017 at 3:37 am #

    Duh. As if it wasn't doing it already.
    I mean, is that such a thing as "Free lunch" on today's world? One's a fool to believe in that. :D

  44. www.com August 24, 2017 at 9:04 am #

    I find it amazing how the crybabies here have no understanding of anything. Mozilla needs to monetize Firefox. Developing a huge project like this requires loads of money. Data mining is lucrative as hell, and will generate revenues. If you believe you are private once connected to the Internet STFU! Every browser developer is in this business, already.

    Are all those people here trying to hide their porn history? *rolls eyes*

    • www.com August 24, 2017 at 9:35 am #

      Hi Appster,

      You really should do better with your sock puppets. That doesn't sound like me at all.

      lol...

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 9:51 am #

        Appster, STFU! This sock puppet show needs to end...

      • Appster August 24, 2017 at 9:58 am #

        @wwwanker: That wasn't even me. I don't need sock puppets, you fool.

      • www.com August 24, 2017 at 10:20 am #

        Yes you do. That's how desperate you've sunk to. Playing childish games like this because your alleged 'hurt pride' is in the way.

        Sad, pathetic...

      • Lestat August 24, 2017 at 10:57 am #

        lol... I trolled you both. See ya.

      • Caderyn Kalnutkar August 24, 2017 at 7:07 pm #

        My my...what for a childish bunch you are! Grow up you should!

        Again... all you radical Mozilla fanboys who show so much disrespect of people with other opinion should really grow up.

        I mean it. Get a life, get rid of your computer stuff, because you are nothing less than babies which only increases the "non existing reputation" your cult developer does have.

        You and Mozilla are some kind of a modern church of Scientology!

      • Anonymous August 24, 2017 at 8:07 pm #

        You do know that at least two thirds of the people you are talking to are on your ideological side, right ?

      • www.com August 25, 2017 at 3:40 am #

        Appster resorting to numerous sock puppets now.

        Desperate, desperate, desperate...

      • Caderyn Kalnutkar August 25, 2017 at 12:54 pm #

        @www.com No, i am not Appster. Feel free to contact the Ghacks admin and ask him if my and his IP are the same if you want :P

        Pretty sure we are not even coming from the same country. Pretty bad attempt and guessing done by you :)

        But i have to admit: I have written here before, stopped for quite some time but decided to revisit and changed my nick for my own personal reasons.

        Also, i had the unfortunate bad luck to write with you ignorant numbnut in other threads here before. Happy guessing :P :P :P

      • Lord Lestat August 26, 2017 at 11:18 pm #

        Lestat? Come on... Nick stealing sucks. There is only one Lestat... Lord Lestat.

        And one more time.. Mozilla is a bunch of leftist fascists. Selling out power users, features, functions, customization - all what made the browser unique and not mainstream.

        Welcome to Googlization! Not only in how the browser feels now, also morality wise coming close to Google. A job well done Mozilla, every leftist who is a lowest common denominator concept supporting anti-feature f*scist would be proud!

  45. ShintoPlasm August 24, 2017 at 11:22 am #

    How's Lynx Browser for privacy? :P

  46. George August 24, 2017 at 12:33 pm #

    Don't know about browsers, but you guys sure know how to spam websites and mail inboxes.

  47. Groomy August 24, 2017 at 9:50 pm #

    @Caderyn Kalnutkar

    Considering your opinion you seem to be playing in the same league like the ones you are lambasting with your insults. No, I am not a FF fanboy. Sorry to disappoint you.

  48. John Doe August 25, 2017 at 1:29 am #

    Mozilla is digging Firefox's own grave.

    Privacy > Security > No privacy

  49. RMS-alike August 25, 2017 at 11:19 pm #

    MS, Goygle, Mozilla are tracking your browsing and involve you in useless flamewars.

    GNU/Linux does NOT have these problems. Upgrade your digital life, embrace the GNU/Linux Community.

  50. Niagara August 26, 2017 at 2:34 am #

    Do we really have to listen to the constant wrangling of a few old hags ? What is this site turning into ?

  51. Jeffery Witherspoon, Senior Statistical Analyst August 26, 2017 at 5:17 pm #

    Regarding the opt-in vs. opt-out argument:
    I am a statistician. The data is going to be biased in either case, to a statistically useless degree. The information derived from the data will therefore be equally useless, if not exponentially more so. The problem isn't that one option is more conducive to the collection of more complete, and therefore more accurate, data samples. The problem is that your potential data set from which you are going to collect your data is already biased. Mozilla is thinking that the dataset from which they are going to collect is representative of the average Firefox user. But that is not the case. The dataset they will be collecting from is actually only Firefox users who do not know enough or care enough about their privacy to allow data to be collected in this way. This is the case whether they use opt-in OR opt-out, because users who are at all aware or concerned about privacy are going to eliminate themselves from this program no matter which method of collection is used. The only difference in the data collected between opt-in and opt-out will be the small subset of individuals who do care about their privacy but are unaware that the data is being collected. *That* difference is statistically insignificant, making the argument pointless even if the data were unbiased, which further indicates that Mozilla is being deliberately underhanded about this program.

    The point is, the only way to get truly unbiased data about any group is to collect that data from them all without telling them about it. That is the main reason that the monetization of the internet is failing so hard. Advertisers think that the marketing data they collect and base all their efforts on is unbiased, when it isn't. When it comes to data collection, there is no such thing as "close enough". Every deviation, no matter how small, gets multiplied when the data gets analyzed and applied. Any bias in the data will produce skewed analyses and steer your application in the wrong direction. Online advertising is failing as an industry for one simple reason: they are ignoring the scientific facts behind what they are trying to do. They believe in "close enough", when the math clearly indicates the opposite is true.

    Collection of data without notification of the individual is not something which is acceptable by most modern societies. There are standards, some legal, some merely ethical, to which corporations and other entities are bound. Exceptions are made only where and when societies deem them warranted. This hardly qualifies. So Mozilla is left entering into this venture knowing ahead of time that the data it is collecting will be biased and therefore useless for its intended purpose. But it will do so anyway, because that is the "industry standard" methodology, and for some reason they deem it better to collect biased data and put it to fruitless use just like everyone else, rather than to do what they were created to do, and use innovative solutions to engage on a personal level with their users to develop a more useful product.

    Data issues aside, when the user becomes the product and the browser becomes the tool used to market the product, you have sealed your doom as a company. Need proof? Just look at IE.

  52. AlexJonesAlike August 26, 2017 at 7:59 pm #

    @Niagara You are free to wnader different HTML-based web pages if you do not feel @home here.

    Godspeed.

    Post Scriptum:

    Comments section give you an idea of what the common users think about some software. I find it useful.

    • Anonymous August 27, 2017 at 3:25 pm #

      > an idea of what the common users think about some software

      Not really though

    • T J August 27, 2017 at 8:16 pm #

      @ AlexJonesAlike

      "Comments section give you an idea of what the common users think about some software. I find it useful."

      When the comments degenerate into a vicious slanging match between posters there is no benefit to anybody except Caderyn Kalnutkar (What sort of name is that? Is it something out of a chlldrens book similar to Harry Potter?) and Appster (wwwanker) who seem to delight in making poorly thought out comments denigrating other posters.
      Neither of them contributed anything intelligent and/or relevant to the blog.

      • Appster August 27, 2017 at 8:53 pm #

        @T J: Your own poorly thought out comment raises the question whether YOU have contributed to the blog up unto this point. I can't remember anything, to be honest. So you shouldn't even raise your voice in that regard. Also, accusing others of ad hominem stuff using ad hominem stuff is plain ridiculous. For me, the equation is rather easy: If someone chooses to dive into the spheres of ad hominem stuff they'll receive a fitting response, at the level they previously chose. So, welcome to the club, T J. Oh, did I just "denigrate" you? If so, feel free to come up with one of those "intelligent" and/or "relevant" answers of yours.

        PS: Your bias in favor of 'www.com is all too obvious.

      • T J August 28, 2017 at 12:06 am #

        Appster

        If you check Martin's previous blogs, you'll find plenty of my comments. You will rarely find a comment which hurls bile and derogatory put downs at other posters.

        You have contributed nothing at all to this discussion except insults and name calling because you are incapable of rational thought and evaluation of the subject. You are no more than a nasty little Troll who enjoys picking a written fight to get your jollies.

        I try not to sink to the level of plonkers such as you but in this case, Appster, Fuck Off and play on another Forum.
        N.B Don't post an answer. It will be ignored.

      • AnorKnee Merce August 28, 2017 at 3:54 pm #

        @ TJ
        .
        " T J February 13, 2017 at 12:22 am #

        @ Steve

        "Nothing wrong with sounding or being Trump." Bloody Hell, a Trump fan boy !

        "Now that I know pants is a snow flake". WTF does that mean ?

        Piss off Steve. Go and play Troll somewhere else you dickhead."
        .
        .
        " T J April 10, 2017 at 1:12 am #

        @ Lord Lestat

        Your response to my post just confirmed what I saw in your previous posts.

        You are an arrogant, self opinionated, person who always believes that your opinion is the correct and only answer and will brook no criticism of such opinion."
        .
        .
        " T J June 9, 2017 at 7:12 pm #

        @ Installer

        I agree !! Every time Mozilla changes Firefox, a lot of the posts turn into Mozilla bashing. Get a life folks. A browser is just a means to find Web content. The world isn't going to end if features are changed !!!"
        .
        .
        " T J June 17, 2017 at 10:47 am #

        This is a pointless change to the download information !
        Why on earth does Mozilla think that removing such information is a positive step !
        Bring back the original functionality please.
        I'm glad that I am using FF52 ESR which is not (yet ?) affected by such nonsensical "improvements"."

  53. Robert G. August 27, 2017 at 3:20 pm #

    You can disable the extension Follow-on Search Telemetry with CCleaner (Tools, Browser Plugins, Firefox). Follow-on Search Telemetry isn't visible in Firefox's Add-ons.

  54. Annuna, Divus, Caesar, Tzar, Mozilla August 28, 2017 at 9:46 pm #

    @ T J: Dude. We are chatting on a dying browser here. A little cheeky rants appeal my loneliness. ON TOPIC I USE PALEMOON AND SUGGEST ANYONE TO DO THE SAME.

    T J you are an anonymous coward. Tel me your real name. And mail.

  55. f August 29, 2017 at 11:56 am #

    oh my. i've been a longtime user and supporter of mozilla and firefox. i was ok with most of the substantial changes to modernize and improve the browser (performance, security...), even if they went against what most hard core firefox users wanted.

    but now it seems mozilla is eager to completely jump the shark.

    collecting data, on the one browser that should be pro user, pro community, pro privacy and pro web.

    yes, the data is anonymized, but why gather the data at all?

    why is it important to know exactly which sites are browsed? i guess it's about the same sites that all internet users in general are visiting, so why not simply look at the alexa ranking, to know which sites are important to optimize for?

    why care about flash at all, when flash is a third party plugin, lying in its deathbed?

    mozilla should be putting all their ressources into making firefox more stable, more performant, more secure and to kill bugs. they should help users and developers with the transition to e10s and web extensions. there is no need to gather all this data, anonymized or not!

    there were many decisions that went against the grain of the people who loved the brower most: the hardcore users. but there comes a time, when it's just too much.

    why stay with a browser who's developers don't give a shit about the only users who give a shit about the browser?

    i'm not saying i will change browers now (as long i can opt out), but i absolutely understand, when more and more users go away from mozilla, because mozilla seems to simply not give a fuck about us.

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