Pale Moon 28.4.0 released: security and stability update

A new version of the desktop web browser Pale Moon was released today for all supported operating systems. Pale Moon 28.4.0 is a major development, stability, and security release according to the release notes.

The new release comes a month after the release of Pale Moon 28.3.0 and is the second major Pale Moon release of the year.

Existing Pale Moon users should get the new version automatically if the automatic updating system is turned on. A click on Pale Moon > Help > About Pale Moon > Check for Updates runs a manual check; Pale Moon should pick up the new version when you activate the option to download and install it over the existing installation.

The new version is also available on the Pale Moon website and you can install it over an existing version to upgrade or anew.

Pale Moon 28.4.0

pale moon 28.4.0

Even though Pale Moon 28.4.0 is listed as a major development release, its primary focus is on security and stability improvements.

Several known security vulnerabilities are addressed and fixed in the new browser version.The security issues CVE-2018-18506, CVE-2018-18356, CVE-2018-18335, and CVE-2019-5785 have been addressed in the new version.

The developers have implemented several defense in depth protections that harden the browser against potential exploits. These security improvements are implemented regularly in new versions of the web browser.

The new Pale Moon version addresses some video playback issues and uses the new ffmpeg decode API which should help with frame drops.

Advanced users get full control over TLS 1.3 cipher suite preferences on about:config; there it is possible to disable them individually.

Load about:config in the Pale Moon address bar to get started. Select that you will be careful, and search for security.tls13 to display the available suites. Double-click on any to toggle its value. A value of True means it is enabled and thus used by Pale Moon, a value of False that it is disabled and not used.

The remaining changes improve certain functionality, e.g. background processes, and therefore also stability of the web browser.

Check out the entire release notes of Pale Moon 28.4.0 here.

Now You: Have you tried Pale Moon recently?

Pale Moon 28.4.0 released: security and stability update
Article Name
Pale Moon 28.4.0 released: security and stability update
A new version of the desktop web browser Pale Moon was released today for all supported operating systems. Pale Moon 28.4.0 is a major development, stability, and security release.
Ghacks Technology News

Previous Post: «
Next Post: »


  1. Anonymous said on February 19, 2019 at 1:59 pm

    My main browser. Perfect except that I’m now forced to replace the search plugins manually, moved from the user profile to programfile. What a shame.

    1. Matt A. Tobin said on February 19, 2019 at 8:18 pm

      Search Plugin handling hasn’t changed in Pale Moon. It can still load them up if dropped in your profile directory as always.. I made sure of it right before 28 first released.

      I was glad I caught it! So dunno what you are on about…

      1. Anonymous said on February 20, 2019 at 4:38 pm

        @Matt A. Tobin > C:\Program Files (x86)\Pale Moon\browser\searchplugins

      2. Matt A. Tobin said on February 20, 2019 at 5:49 pm

        That is the location for the DEFAULT searchplugins.. You shouldn’t be dropping anything in the program directory.

      3. Anonymous said on February 20, 2019 at 6:43 pm

        “You shouldn’t be dropping anything in the program directory.”

        Why, because you make money with them like with DuckDuckGo?. Sorry but I prefer to use my own.

      4. Ascrod said on February 20, 2019 at 7:22 pm

        @Anon You can and should use the searchplugins folder in your profile folder.
        C:\\AppData\Roaming\Moonchild Productions\Pale Moon\Profiles\\searchplugins

      5. Anonymous said on February 20, 2019 at 8:32 pm

        Ok but it is the same. To use the original plugins not modified by Moonchild, at each update I have to remove the search plugins’ folder in programfiles.

  2. Iron Heart said on February 19, 2019 at 3:00 pm

    I think that dropping WebExtensions from their Basilisk browser was a huge, huge mistake on part of the Pale Moon team. Due to that, WebExtensions will probably never reach the Pale Moon browser.

    I am not denying the somewhat lacking capabilities of WEs compared to legacy add-ons, but some add-ons, e.g. uBlock Origin, work the same or better as a WebExtension. It is very frustrating that I have to use the old uBlock 1.16.4 legacy version in Pale Moon, as the browser wouldn’t support any newer WE version of uBlock Origin. The same is true for Privacy Badger, HTTPS Everywhere etc.

    This is the one big gripe I have with Pale Moon / Basilisk, they are fine browsers otherwise. But whoever thought that WebExtensions are optional at this point should revise this stance as soon as possible. There are indeed fine WebExtensions out there, and having to use some older legacy version of them is not acceptable.

    1. Alex said on February 19, 2019 at 4:56 pm

      @Iron Heart “Due to that, WebExtensions will probably never reach the Pale Moon browser.”

      False (that was fast). WebExtensions were never meant to reach Pale Moon and they never will. There’s Firefox, Chrome and several clones for those who like WebExtensions (ugh).

      “having to use some older legacy version of them is not acceptable.”

      You are going to use a veto in the European Council or something?

      1. Iron Heart said on February 19, 2019 at 8:08 pm

        > False (that was fast). WebExtensions were never meant to reach Pale Moon and they never will.

        I said that they are not in the browser. You say they are not, nor will they ever be. Where is the difference? It’s quite bad no matter the wording.

        > There’s Firefox, Chrome and several clones for those who like WebExtensions (ugh).

        Pale Moon will never succeed if current extensions aren’t supported at all. Nobody develops for a niche browser.

        > You are going to use a veto in the European Council or something?

        Were your tender feelings hurt or something? Why so huffy? I criticized one aspect of the browser while stating that it is fine otherwise. Calm down.

      2. John Fenderson said on February 20, 2019 at 5:22 pm

        @Iron Heart: “Pale Moon will never succeed”

        I think that depends on how you define “succeed”.

    2. Ascrod said on February 19, 2019 at 5:13 pm

      There was never a plan to implement Web Extensions in Pale Moon; they would have remained confined to Basilisk had they stayed. If there is a web extension you want to see on Pale Moon, your best bet is forking it and making it compatible with UXP.

    3. John said on February 19, 2019 at 6:36 pm

      The feeling I get is that if WebExtension compatibility was something that could just be tacked on as an afterthought, the Pale Moon developers would do it. The problem is, adding and maintaining said compatibility in the long-term would not be simple and would impact the type of browser they want to build.

      Unlike many Firefox forks which are fairly minor deviations in terms of code, Pale Moon has a completely different UI and veered left when Firefox veered right (or vice-versa) under the hood. Unless they literally wanted to mantain two-browsers-in-one, bridged together with chewing gum (Today’s Pale Moon plus today’s Firefox), or abandon their design philosphy and become a close fork of Firefox under the hood, they pretty much have to go their own way on extensions. They are actually attempting to maintain an entire continuely developing XUL-based platform code that currently powers a half dozen or so different projects (Not all affiliated with MoonChild Products) and that could be used by anyone for anything that complies with the licensing terms (Mostly the old MPL). People could make MP3 players and office suites out of it if they wanted to- hopefully contributing back patches or volunteering development hours to help maintain and develop the core platform code.

      Its very ambitious for a small project, but interesting and potentially good for software code and browser diversity. Hopefully some other coders will volunteer to help them or at least commit patches on the application and platform code bases.

      Obviously, the key issue they are running into with extensiond is that not enough developers want to develop extensions for browsers and a platform code that had such low marketshare. They seem committed not to go the Vivaldi route and just incorporating the kitchen sink into the core browser options wise, eliminating the need for many add-ons, so the future of the PM add-on ecosystem depends in part on developers deciding its worth their time to create or fork XUL add-ons *and maintain them*.

      Now, I don’t want to overstate the problem. Right now, for example, there are three ad-blockerd alone being actively maintained with Pale Moon compatibility. For example, UBlock Origin has a legacy branch that the UBO dev does actively update (Though one needs to install a separate updater program), albeit one that doesn’t necessarily get the same level of development attentio as the Firefox and Chrome version.

      Its just that the overall extension ecosystem could use more actively developed extensions in it.

      I agree with the implication that in the long run, just using old Firefox extensions that aren’t maintained is a bad choice. However, some extensions are being maintained specifically for PM. They just need more. I’m not sure how that happens, but clearly that’s one goal I would imagine they would like to see be fulfilled.

    4. Matt A. Tobin said on February 19, 2019 at 8:22 pm

      WebExtensions were never going to be in Pale Moon. This is why the Tycho (Pale Moon 27) Add-ons Manager was ported up.. Specifically to avoid the WebExtension infected one that was native to the base platform code.

      The decisions to include them in Basilisk as an experimental feature was just that.. Experimental. The decision to remove the experimental feature was always a possibility. Why else do you think it was labeled experimental?

      It was either going to go forward or be removed.. It wasn’t a hard commitment but it was a hard decision for Moonchild to make.

      Regardless, it is done and over now and it won’t be coming back. You should read THIS post:

    5. Lord-Lestat said on February 20, 2019 at 12:08 pm

      @Iron Heart WE’s do have no future in Basilisk as nobody has the time or the necessary knowledge of what Mozilla has done in later WE-revisions to make it simple to back.port this to Basilisk.

      The WE code Basilisk has and the variant which Firefox has today are quite different, and the more the Firefox variant changes, the less that kind of add-ons will work in Basilisk.

      So, it makes no sense to keep a more and more growing incompatible code inside when you know that sooner or later no WE will work anymore in Basilisk because the changes Mozilla did can’t be brought over.

      So, better kill it with Fire and focus on what you have. Point is, Webextensions have no future in Basilisk.

  3. John Fenderson said on February 19, 2019 at 5:26 pm

    “Have you tried Pale Moon recently?”

    No, Waterfox serves my needs perfectly, so there’s no need. Plus, I’m more than a little put off by Moonchild and the community.

  4. Dilly Dilly said on February 19, 2019 at 5:37 pm

    Palemoon user since 2010. Very few sites have had problems. I use Palemoon’s adblock latitude and Toggle Javascript plugins along side a custom block list. Sites load very fast. I enable javascript when sites requires it. I wish you could enable/disable the toggle on a per TAB or Palemoon instance but its either on or off.

  5. basicuser said on February 19, 2019 at 8:24 pm

    “Have you tried Pale Moon recently?”

    Not recently, first tried it about 2 years ago, and still trying it. ;)

  6. 11r20 said on February 19, 2019 at 8:29 pm

    Still using FF51 and Pale-Moon 27 for personal use and they both work great.

    The Legacy extensions IE: uBlock-Original works better than the W.E…I’ve tried em both and using the latest winblows-10, Chrome, Firefox at the corporate level is frustrating.

    For personal use>>>use pi-hole…block all known e100 and amazon connections(it can be done)in the firewall…Your Provider can’t stop who shows up at Your back door, but You can. The data You save and watching it all
    play out on the NetLimiter without the Google location data base is Very Entertaining

  7. Palegroom said on February 19, 2019 at 9:23 pm

    This will, as before, turn out as an useless discussion about Palemoon. And maybe spiced with insults.

  8. clake said on February 19, 2019 at 10:26 pm

    Yes, it works great in both debian and manjaro. Low resource use and good performance – though not my most used browser, it very well could be.

  9. Jerry said on February 19, 2019 at 10:49 pm

    A little too toxic for you?
    Moonchild and the community is the man, not wish-washy!
    Pale Moon is the best, keep up the good work Moonchild!

  10. Dave Richerson said on February 19, 2019 at 10:53 pm

    @John Fenderson

    “Plus, I’m more than a little put off by Moonchild and the community.”

    Moonchild does what is right, doesn’t follow the herd.

    Boo hoo!

    1. Jody Thornton said on February 20, 2019 at 1:54 pm

      @Dave Richerson (and Jerry for that matter)

      Yes the PM forum is absolutely toxic. His attitude is arrogant, and it rubs off on the rest of the forum. Pale Moonies defend whatever he thinks and says without question. And those that dare to question anything, get a lip full of it from Moon-Matt or even Sajadi (holy crap he is the utmost nauseating).

      And no Moonchild isn’t necessarily doing what’s right. He simply follows his tunnel vision ideology to a fault. If Moonchild believes that WebExtensions are insecure (while pretty much everyone outside the Pale Moon community says otherwise), then what he says is the law.

      It’s funny. Pale Moonies say that all of the Mozilla and Google fans are Sheeple, but Pale Moonies follow Moonchild wherever he takes them, even if it’s off a cliff.

      1. Lord-Lestat said on February 20, 2019 at 5:45 pm

        Oh my, @Jody Thornton has a bad day again! You really should think of inserting natural sedative legal drugs into your circuit or something else, to finally defeat your anger issues.

        WE’s can be exploited the same way like XUL extensions. No technology is protected against a professional hurricane of damage if a malware creator wants to do something with resources available. And a Mozilla which implements more and more Google code inside…. that is much more troublesome and wrong – it just shows the company has not much ideas on their own.

        Granted, the attitude of the Pale Moon developers is a little bit raw-styled – but at least they are not making the horrible and idiotic mistake to cry out that “customization and features are bloat and insecure” like Google cries out most loud followed second by Mozilla.

        And as usual you little coward, you do not have the guts to face persons you are insulting face to face. You want to tell Tobin or that Sajadi guy something? You know, there is IRC available and the forum. But i understand, the coziness of a plain and simple article which you can ignore is unbeatable. Still, a coward is and stays a coward. And you are the worst, Jody!

      2. Jody Thornton said on February 20, 2019 at 8:11 pm

        Oh My – oooops, I mean “Oh Lord”

        @Lord-Lestat: As for my being a “coward” by not chatting on IIRC or the forum, let’s examine this, shall we?:

        (a) How is chatting on IIRC more personal than writing here? I’ve never used IIRC, but aren’t we corresponding here? Please explain – I mean after all, perhaps I don’t know enough about IIRC because I’m not a loser who spends his entire day online talking to you or the Moon Crew because, hmmmm, I do other things with my life?

        (b) I was banned from the Pale Moon Forum so I can’t post there. But you already knew that, right? Maybe not – I mean there’s so much on your mind, but limited room to fit it all in.

        (c) Obviously Sajadi hears what I’m saying, because I’ve seem him whine on the PM forum about what gets posted here on Ghacks on previous occasions. No coward-like behaviour on my part. He sees it.

        You don’t even know me as a real person so how would you know if I was a coward or not? Have you ever considered (wait – consideration require brain power and effort – OK let’s say you did) … have you ever considered that watching a farce from afar is just plain fun? I’m not trying to change minds here or cure cancer. I’m just amused at how ideological and stubborn Straver and company are. That’s all. Even seeing how defensive and insulting you are is almost idiotic on your part. You just sound like an angry twit. That’s all.

        If it’s by the measure of Lord Lestat that I’m deemed the worst, I’ll sleep just fine thank you.

      3. Lord-Lestat said on February 20, 2019 at 10:54 pm

        @Jody Thornton i am not the angry one. But you prove again and again that you are just a not funny clown – Who do you want to be? Wheatley from Portal 2? Because… a Glados… someone like you never would have the class to be!

        You and Wheatley even have the same punching jokes…
        I am NOT… a moron!
        I am NOT… a coward!

        And allow me to answer in a close imitation of Glados:
        YES YOU ARE!

        You are miserable and bitter, because your mainstream ideology was not going to be followed by the Pale Moon devs, and that brings you over and over and over again back in here to submit your words… of non-existing wisdom.

        Let me get this straight.. Because you got kicked from the board and because that the Pale Moon makers are not going the mainstream way like Firechrome and Scroogle makes Pale Moon a farce?

        Even projects like Vivaldi or Brave are having more class than Mozilla in one single finger. And both projects also can’t hardly be taken seriously. That says actually quite a lo about the state of Mozilla.

        Also… nothing against geek projects. There is more than enough mainstream ware for simple minded people like you on the market already.

        You are not at all a person which someone could take seriously. You are joke. Go back home and let the adults play here, because this is a class or 2 over your own.

      4. Stan said on February 20, 2019 at 8:50 pm

        “And as usual you little coward, you do not have the guts to face persons you are insulting face to face. You want to tell Tobin or that Sajadi guy something? You know, there is IRC available and the forum.”

        Er, you are being ‘faced’ here!
        Why would one want abusive PM’s from you two at that creepy place?

        @ When will MoonPie’s 2108 financial statement be made public ?

      5. Jody Thornton said on February 21, 2019 at 3:20 am


        I know eh? Lord-Thermostat thinks I care about this way way WAY more than I actually do. It’s almost frightening. I mean, who is “Wheatley from Portal 2”? A game figure? See, I don’t know some of this geeky stuff.

        Maybe I am a stupid clown. Good thing Lordy pointed it out to me.

        Wow! You just sound, … well … weird. And ANGRY! Watch that blood pressure Lord-Thermostat.

        Me not liking the Pale Moon team has nothing to do with somehow being bitter that I was booted from the forum, or about mainstream ideology. Holy crap, I’d rather enjoy some music or go walking on a day off rather than be bitter about that. I just find it hilarious to talk about the Pale Moon team. No different than a viral story on Facebook. After a couple of days, I don’t think about it, until the next Pale Moon post comes along.

        As for not being on the PM forum: Big deal! I can still download and use Pale Moon if I want to. I can still read the forum. No biggie! But I know, you’ll just come back and say I’m a coward, or some other stupidity that only a twit like you would say. So I’ll bow out now. But thanks for the giggles Lordy Thermostat! Say hi to that Wheatley character you were talking about. I don’t know him, but I’m sure he’s a nice chap.

      6. Lord-Lestat said on February 21, 2019 at 4:58 pm

        @Stan Luckily there are other… more higher values than money. And for this i am very glad. And every real geek understands and values that. Mainstream followers like you and others, can and never will be able to understand that. In your opinion all what is not mainstream and simple is bloat, not secure and waste of time. And i am so happy that there are tons of people out there who think otherwise.

        @Jody Thornton The funny thing is… You are actually not making crazy statements and acting in a highly arrogant way out of mistake, you do that because your are unable do do any better – and you do that on purpose.

        You are just a hobby-less lame troll with a rather limited intellect. You do not use Pale Moon or Basilisk – and yet you are always coming back to threads like that to show your simple minded nature again and again. You know what, every single geek shows more spirit, maturity and intelligence as compared to you.

        People like you and your ridiculous troll-parade which is supporting you and your laughable causes are so very down of my recognition-map – and the only reason why i constantly walk away from my own path is because trolls like you are always good for a serious laugh.

        You are so caught in your boring world of mainstream and mobile and everything simple and generic – the only reason you are not trying to offend for example people in Otter or Vivaldi threads is because you never have been put into your correct limited place by people from that communities – even more it is obvious that you constantly visit the Moonchild related postings because you ARE having anger issues and more than a small beef to fry with the makers – caused in the end by your own actions and reactions.

        And about Wheatley… Portal 2 says the following.. this fella was created not as a random moron, but as THE moron, who almost wrecked Apperture Science because of his clear inability to get a job properly done. No wonder you have a knack for guys like that :D

      7. Lord-Lestat said on February 21, 2019 at 5:14 pm

        One more thing @Jody Thornton:

        Mozilla is here the real laughing stick, because they are giving up more and more to be themselves and instead inserting more and more of Chromium similarities.

        If we talk about being serious… Then Mozilla is the most pathetic and most stupid company instantly upcoming after Opera – 2 companies who abandoned their origin target-communities against the one of a different competing project. This is so much more pathetic and cheap – and no one is able to be more worse than mentioned 2 companies.

        People like you are a serious threat. Just recently i found a posting over at the Brave community where simple minded people like you are going fully ballistic about everything which is a bit more unique than the generic majority out there. People like you are ruining everything with a bit of different spirit.

        And i can imagine how happy the Pale Moon community must be that Wheatley’s like you no longer are being allowed to roam around and to try and to sabotage everything which is just a bit of different and is trying to keep a distinct own flavor.

        And if people of that category to which you and some others belong which can be seen in the Moonchild postings here @Ghacks and they are put into their correct place, they go fully moronic. Like you are always proving to do. Congratulations Jody, you would fully earn your gold medal over there at 4Chan!

      8. Stan said on February 21, 2019 at 8:56 pm

        Jeez, this is the voice of Pale Moon? !

        I hear McDonald’s is looking for a new clown…

      9. Jody Thornton said on February 22, 2019 at 9:35 am


        I know, but wait – below the voice of the “white hat” comes to Lord-Lestat’s rescue. Just as pathetic.

        See these same clowns have at it when the say Chrome-Fox are for simple users. Oh that’s fine. But you criticize the Moon – watch out.

      10. Lord-Lestat said on February 22, 2019 at 3:11 pm

        @Stan Voice of Pale Moon? If you mean me, i fear you are wrong. I may have the browser installed in combination with Falkon and Otter-Browser – but that is all what i have in common with the browser and the community.

        I am not part of the board community. Also, i was pretty much a critic of Pale Moon in many other posts. But i tell you what:

        When i see projects being discriminated because they do not follow the “mainstream fashion line” and because the makers neither give “Dumb-ass rights management” (DRM) or Webextensions (which never will allow proper UI customization abilities) the proper credit – even if the “mainstream fashion opinion” thinks this is the only valid and reasonable way these days – Then i rather morally side with such a group before i would join the “minimalist Web 2 – 3.0 crowd” which is dominating today’s world wide web.

        This is about honesty, self-esteem and thinking out of the box. What a large percentage of today’s generation is unable or unwilling to do.

      11. Jody Thornton said on February 22, 2019 at 12:14 am

        Er, OK Whatever Lord Thermomstat. See I’ve been at work all day, so I’m just seeing your pathetic tripe now. Cassette and Jonn Fenderson make a good. point. This is becoming as toxic as it is on the Pale Moon Forum. So I will be the bigger man, bow out, and let you stand alone as being the sole let down of diplomacy. I wasn’t trying to create a beef with you. I had made my point about the forum (in fact I didn’t even bring it up). But you had to come in and spit out your vile.

        So I will get some fresh air, and spend my evening somewhere that you aren’t.

        I would bid you a good day, but I really don’t wish you one.

      12. George said on February 22, 2019 at 3:06 am

        Jody Thornton: “So I will be the bigger man and bow out…”

        Must be the 90th time you’ve done that. I’m guessing you’ve become extremely large. It can be easily verified though: no place like the next Pale Moon article!

      13. Jody Thornton said on February 22, 2019 at 9:27 am


        Nice try. Stay classy – or not.

      14. Sam Hauser said on February 22, 2019 at 12:37 am

        @Jody Thornton and so on….

        Let me make this simple and painless. You are an idiot. And why?

        Because everything what is not like it should be in your visionary mind is bad and should cease to exist and is a failure. Blablabla… Please people, continue walking down the street, nothing to be seen than a simple dumb-ass who thinks he is smart of and importance while all he was good for was getting banned from a community as it looks like.

        There are 2 kind of people we from the White-Hat community do despise… Fraudsters/spam guys and people who do everything to put other projects into the dirt/mud/whatever… It is too bad that there is no law what give law-enforcement agencies the right to confiscate your computer and bans you for lifetime from touching an electronic device again.

        You should be ashamed of yourself, because you are a true disgusting person. Sorry, but it is true.

        Sam Hauser
        Team-leader/organizer non-profit White-Hat anti-abuse investigations (online) collective

      15. Jody Thornton said on February 22, 2019 at 9:33 am

        @Sam Hauser:

        Go away and wear your white hat. I’m allowed to make my point as anyone else is. Now, obviously there are others here who share my opinion. I wasn’t even the first to bring it up. When Lord-Lestat comes on and starts throwing insults, I’m not going to just stand idly by. So I respond.

        Again Sammy, you know nothing about me as a person. If you consider the Internet to be “real life”, you need to go get a life of your own. I hope that wasn’t too discusting for ya

        Ciao! Ooooops, you dropped your white hat.

      16. Iron Heart said on February 22, 2019 at 11:30 am

        @Lord Lestat, George and other Pale Moon trolls

        Jody Thornton is right. Straver’s (Moonchild) and Tobin’s behavior on the forums is aggressive and abusive. They, and especially Tobin, are driving away users and developers alike with their attitude. They are resistant to criticism, and abuse their moderating powers by banning people who have committed the severe “offense” of disagreeing with them.

        That is the truth and nothing but the truth, anyone who doesn’t believe me may go to the Pale Moon forum and verify what I’ve just said. Sometimes you must see things with your own eyes in order to believe them.

        You are giving @Jody Thornton a lot of shit for disagreeing with the team’s behavior, despite the fact that literally everyone can go there and witness their lovely attitude first hand. @Pale Moon trolls, do you even realize how ridiculous this is? The forum is widely known to be toxic, so whose face are you trying to save? I am afraid it is too late for that.

        Berating @Jody Thornton is of course easier than holding Straver and Tobin to a higher standard of politeness.

        @Sam Hauser

        > Team-leader/organizer non-profit White-Hat anti-abuse investigations (online) collective

        It sounds like the inmates have taken over the asylum.

        > It is too bad that there is no law what give law-enforcement agencies the right to confiscate your computer and bans you for lifetime from touching an electronic device again.

        Sounds like something a totalitarian dictator would do – punishing people for small or even non-existing offenses. Disowning people, forcing a certain opinion on them… Where have we seen this before? Go back to your “collective”, insane wannabe dictator.

      17. Jody Thornton said on February 22, 2019 at 11:39 am

        @Iron Heart:

        I must say you’ve said it way better and more distinctly than I ever could have. I appreciate your defending my viewpoint. I won’t sully your well-made point by adding any more to it.

        Cheers, my friend!

      18. George said on February 22, 2019 at 2:20 pm

        @Iron Heart “You are giving Jody Thornton a lot of shit for disagreeing with the team’s behavior”.

        Oh no dear, that is not the reason at all. Anyone is free to disagree, obviously. This is completely different and trying to “play innocent”, yet again, with the ‘disagreement’ card is pathetic.

        Keep crying all you want, hopeless is what you are. You’ve become the laughing stock of every Pale Moon related article and that’s the only reason why people still interact with the likes of you: to have a laugh.

      19. Iron Heart said on February 22, 2019 at 3:13 pm


        > Keep crying all you want, hopeless is what you are. You’ve become the laughing stock of every Pale Moon related article and that’s the only reason why people still interact with the likes of you: to have a laugh.

        George, you are a known Pale Moon troll, your glorious career stretches back to Pale Moon 27 articles. The only thing which can be deemed hopeless here is Pale Moon’s overall market share and reputation. I wonder if that has anything to do with the “nice” people promoting it.

        Jody Thornton is 100% correct about the antics of the team behind Pale Moon. Proof? Straver’s and Tobin’s posting history.

      20. George said on February 22, 2019 at 5:47 pm

        @Iron Heart yes, I am the Career Troll. You got me, but I have this problem. I stalk software articles for years, ye olde Pale Moon browser, then throw dirt and gossip. Any sense of personal dignity has vanished a long time ago, but I can’t help it.

        Reveal more, ye Iron Heart knight. Share thy infinite source of wisdom, amusement and inspiration.

      21. Jody Thornton said on February 22, 2019 at 3:35 pm


        That’s the same reason I join in the Pale Moon conversations. To have a laugh and see it from afar. So why then are you taking this SO PERSONALLY?

        This is all based on disagreement. There is no “card” played. You and the Lord-Lestat ilk (I’m starting to wonder if he’s Sajadi) think there’s some political/troll ideology behind this. It’s just all in a day’s fun. That’s really all there is to it.

        It’s no different than if I were on a Facebook group about turntables, and two people are arguing the benefits of belt-drive vs direct-drive turntables. No winners or losers. Except here, it’s not even the product I’m airing my feelings about. It’s the team.

      22. Lord-Lestat said on February 22, 2019 at 10:54 pm

        @Jody Thornton my nicks are only in the style of either Lestat/Lord-Lestat/Warlord-Lestat similar. That is all.

        I am no troll who is using different names aka for example Appster/SunGlasses – and i would never use a common/generic sounding handle. That is simply below my personal standards.

      23. Lord-Lestat said on February 22, 2019 at 3:39 pm

        @Iron Heart i am not siding with certain people in that situation. I am neither here to defend Moonchild or Tobin or whatever for persons.

        A very large part of the animosity against this project comes from the fact that the makers seems not to be interested in what some people wanted to have implemented – and is not THAT much related to the way the makers have been acting in general – But the latter is a good justification for ongoing animosity and complaining, isn’t it right?. Could the makers have been more polite and diplomatic in the way they reacted in some situations? Yes indeed. But on the other side, people could have also accepted the word no and either accepting that their wishes being refused or… just moving on somewhere else when the disagreement with the project and the decisions was growing too large to bear.

        So, which decisions have been met with animosity: DRM not to be implemented in Pale Moon (and my bet is it is going to be removed from Basilisk too in the future because UXP-Github-issue 962 in my opinion is too complicated) – Webextensions as technology was in the end refused to be part in both Basilisk (because ongoing Mozilla changes are unable to be implemented because of time and complexity) – others perhaps wanted that Pale Moon joins the minimalist rebuild league like Waterfox is (and Cyberfox was) – also known as becoming “another Firefox clone”

        And instead that people have accepted the decision that this was/is no part of the ongoing development-road, people have been constantly lobbying for exactly the same stuff. If a maker of a program says no, this means no. Who can not accept that, can just move on. But constantly bickering and begging for the same things again… This is pathetic and useless.

        And – the idea that the project fails because stuff gets not implemented or was (or is going to be…) removed – The only reason why the project actually could fail is if Moonchild is no longer interested in maintaining it and nobody else can (or has interest to…) continue, some giant meteor smashes their servers and all the backup and project files are wiped out at once because of that or similar incidents like the destruction of the earth, the universe getting erased because of some “Eldritch abomination” is going to arrive or stuff worse :D

        But the fact that something is removed or is not implemented has nothing at all to do with it – as Pale Moon is NO commercial project which defines itself over raw numbers.

      24. Lord-Lestat said on February 22, 2019 at 4:21 pm

        @Iron Heart it also depends HOW to argue. For example @John Fenderson” can put reasonable criticism inside without being as passive-aggressive like @Jody Thornton or for example @Stan

        While your personal writing style is not meeting the class of a “John Fenderson” i still would rate you a bit above “Jody Thornton” and “Stan”

        Anyway, while John Fenderson – who is also not the biggest fan of the project as a whole – writes in a more polite and neutral way, most other critics have either their own piece of meat to fry with the Pale Moon project and it’s makers or can simply not accept the fact that the browser is no part of the “mainstream-fashion” – which results in them being… as said… highly passive-aggressive or… in some cases demand that “the project immediately is going to be cancelled to avoid further damage”

        The real reason of the haters and critics is the following:

        “Moonchild does not act in the way of how Mozilla or Google acts, and as Mozilla and Google are “Shiny knights in white armor and 1000% right in all their actions” – Moonchild and their software has to be berated, insulted and others have to be warned from them as nobody should use a software of wrong-doers.”

        Ever heard of fascism? Just because it is “only” about a software and their makers, there is not that much difference at all between plain hate and fascism. Being against Pale Moon has become some kind of religion here for quite a bunch on Ghacks and elsewhere.

        And where does that put me into all of that… while i see no reason to counter a neutral and well written argument, i feel it as my duty to counter stupid trolls and wannabe important people who think it is either “their way or -it shall otherwise not be allowed to exist if it is not- ”

        Even i – one of the most radical critics of Firefox and Mozilla was able to move away from most posts here on Ghacks about Mozilla and Firefox – in the end i have been able to put more effort and success into this than the league of Pale Moon haters – which simply hate the browser because the makers refuse to do what the so-called critics demand from Moonchild and company.

      25. New Tobin Paradigm said on February 20, 2019 at 6:03 pm

        You’re funny, that is so not the case.. I dunno if you actually followed the Basilisk WebExtension thread but it was me who, harshly, pushed against Moonchild in this.

        You say everyone accepts Moonchild’s will without question.. That is simply not true and never has been. A sizable vocal minority gets upset when a single pixel changes let alone items like the New Tab Page refresh or the tab restyle with the 1px gap.. Sometimes Moonchild acceeds to the mass will of the users sometimes he doesn’t. Sometimes he agrees with my point of view sometimes he doesn’t.

        And just sometimes I have to be the asshole to push the issue for objective evaluation of something and much of the time the right decision is made.

        The point that we aren’t all just sheep is a huge one over in our neck of the woods is what offends and enrages people like you these days. Some of it is your personal offense that someone didn’t like your opinion and the rest is merely projection of your current following without question the propaganda, unjustified claims, and outright falsehoods that get spread about us because we all dared to step out of line and do our own things.

        The fact is, we are all people and as people we should be treated as such. We have the right to make choices for our selves even if they are in your opinion the wrong ones.

    2. John Fenderson said on February 20, 2019 at 4:52 pm

      @Dave Richerson: “Moonchild does what is right, doesn’t follow the herd.”

      This is not relevant to my comment. Doing what is right and not following the herd aren’t things I would criticize him, or anybody, about. I would say, though, that Moonchild does what he believes is right. Nobody is correct 100% of the time.

      Your comment is a great example of what I mean.

      “Boo hoo!”

      This is an example of what my comment was talking about.

      1. Cassette said on February 21, 2019 at 10:20 am

        @John Fenderson

        Pale Moon forum is hardly unique in containing a lot of bickering. Pretty much every community forum with decent traffic has the same. Just look at the comment thread here. A recent article on Ghacks about Waterfox had a number of posters unprompted posting critical comments about Pale Moon. Obviously those aren’t people who are part of the Pale Moon community yet they are no less toxic. The point is the internet is a cesspool. I am curious what your issue with Moonchild is, though. I often see people complain about him, but he is far more diplomatic than, say, Tobin.

      2. New Tobin Paradigm said on February 21, 2019 at 5:01 pm


        This is true, I admit it.. I generally suck at PR. I just want a good future for everyone though. I am trying though. Not always succeeding but I AM trying.

        I just believe so much in this technology and want others to experience it as I have and for it to truly live up to the potential for which it was created to achieve.

        Also, alternatives are ALWAYS good. That enables choice. How can it ever be a bad thing?

        Additionally, Jody Thornton loses 274 Pale Moon Collaboration Points.

      3. Jody Thornton said on February 22, 2019 at 12:06 am


        Well Matt, at least you admit you suck at PR. Cool! I love honesty. And if you’re indeed trying – then great.

        You can keep my points. :)

      4. John Fenderson said on February 21, 2019 at 5:43 pm

        @Cassette: “Pale Moon forum is hardly unique in containing a lot of bickering.”

        Absolutely true, but I’m not talking about normal bickering. I’m talking about a toxic environment. The Pale Moon forum (and Moonchild specifically as well), is well above my ability to tolerate.

        “Obviously those aren’t people who are part of the Pale Moon community yet they are no less toxic.”

        True enough, but two points about that — the first is that the comments here tend to be about “normal” for the internet. The second is that Martin doesn’t join that particular party.

        “I am curious what your issue with Moonchild is, though.”

        He is unnecessarily hostile. Which is fine, he can be however he wants to be. I’m not saying that he (or anyone connected to PM) should behave any differently, only that such behavior indicates that Pale Moon is not a piece of software I’m personally willing to use no matter how good it is. Particularly when there are alternatives that are at least as good.

    1. Anonymous said on February 20, 2019 at 4:59 pm

      Privacy nuts being nuts… What’s new? Moonchild is correct.

  11. heyu said on February 20, 2019 at 7:28 am

    Incoming insecure haters…… Dundundunduuunnnnn……

    1. Jody Thornton said on February 20, 2019 at 1:56 pm


      We’re not insecure. I never minded the browser. Just the team. And I don’t discuss it because I’m obsessed with it. Think of it like the big car wreck that everyone slows down to see. That’s pretty much what it is.

      1. Lord-Lestat said on February 22, 2019 at 12:17 am

        @Jody Thornton Sure… for not adopting WE’s or refusing to go general mainstream (simplicity)… As i see it, the Pale Moon team is giving a damn if mainstream people are going to use it.

        This is clearly no browser for the raw masses. Pretty hard to understand that there are actually projects which have a concept like that, right?

        You are really as intellectually limited as you look like. What goes beyond your small limited horizon is too hard to grasp, right? But worry not son, not everyone can be a philosopher or an Albert Einstein – the universe has also place for the poor workers class :D

    2. Stan said on February 20, 2019 at 4:30 pm

      When “haters” comes up , it’s obvious which PM sycophant is posting.

      @”Moonchild does what is right, doesn’t follow the herd”

      Well DOH! Nor does any Cult Leader.

      1. Lord-Lestat said on February 22, 2019 at 12:19 am

        @Stan the secret is not being like the rest, the secret is – be unique, be different. But that concept is too hard to understand, right?

        Customization is no cancer. Customization is important and valuable.

    3. Anonymous said on February 20, 2019 at 5:08 pm

      When there are haters, there is success.

  12. supergirl said on February 20, 2019 at 1:33 pm

    Now You: Have you tried Pale Moon recently?

    I have it installed ,in fact the update was sitting in my update manager
    while I was opening this very page.

    So I updated my,rarely used Palemoon just now.

    Im not sure why its just not appealing to me.

    FFX 60 ESR & Waterfox are my go tos for now.

  13. Another brick in the net said on February 20, 2019 at 7:36 pm

    Pale Moon is my 2nd choice after KMeleon.

  14. Tree said on February 21, 2019 at 4:10 pm

    I love NoScript. I have two Windows 7 computers with Pale Moon. On one of them NoScript stopped working a while ago, but now it works. Hurray! I don’t want web pages to work as intended, with flashing or noisy ads and tracking bugs.

  15. 01101001b said on February 22, 2019 at 4:51 am

    “Have you tried Pale Moon recently?”

    Yep, so far, so good. WebExtensions? I pass.

  16. Stan said on February 22, 2019 at 4:28 pm

    “There are 2 kind of people we from the White-Hat community do despise”

    I’d make that three, Sajadi (and all the obvious names it uses) the unemployable ‘Tobin’ and YOU.

    @What’s ‘White-Hat’, tolerant crowd eh, a new name for the Abwehr ?

    1. Lord-Lestat said on February 22, 2019 at 10:44 pm

      @Stan as you like to spit non-existing intelligent claims around.. Have you any evidence for your claim that some person is “using obvious names”?

      Just interested, because such an intelligent guy like you does have for sure detailed lists, email and IP evidences and all that necessary surveillance equipment around to prove your evidence. Pretty sure you are the new 007 James Bond. Or… was it more like Austin Powers or Johnny English?

      If you do not have… i suggest go back to the basement below and do what you and others can do best… crying :)

    2. Sam Hauser said on February 22, 2019 at 11:26 pm

      @Stan You are the same kind of comedian like Jody Thornton is wanting to be. Do you have any idea what the meaning of White-Hat actually is? What it means if you are a member of the security community? What for a kind of responsibility this is? People like you risk always such a big lip, it is incredible of how big of an ego the most biggest fools do have.

      Our collective is helping people report spam and general fraud to the respective hosting companies. We report fraudulent domains to the domain registrars and we investigate and report fraudulent illegal scam campaigns like for example the one which is called Canadian-Pharmacy.

      And that we are doing already around 10 years. Me and 9 other contributors: – Sorry, no entrance for morons allowed!

      But rest assured, people like you or this Jody guy we would never help. Even we have standards. As we are never ever going to support trolls, or beings which clearly have no real life. And if this Sajadi about which you and Jody seem to be complaining is unlike you 2 comedians, then this one sounds like some reasonable individual.

      1. Jody Thornton said on February 23, 2019 at 1:59 pm

        I’m a comedian? Now …. now that’s funny. Hey aren’t you Doogie Hauser the White-Hat guy?

        Anyway Sammy, apparently I need to practice my stand-up. I’m a comedian you know.
        Sheeesh – what a moron!

      2. Iron Heart said on February 23, 2019 at 7:27 pm

        @Sam Hauser

        > What it means if you are a member of the security community? What for a kind of responsibility this is? People like you risk always such a big lip, it is incredible of how big of an ego the most biggest fools do have.

        The booby hatch has called, they want to know where their inmates have gone. Do you know Lord Garth of Izar? If not, look him up. You are about as self-proclaimed as he is.

        > Our collective is helping people report spam and general fraud to the respective hosting companies.

        So, you are an informer? Self-proclaimed investigator?

        > And if this Sajadi about which you and Jody seem to be complaining is unlike you 2 comedians, then this one sounds like some reasonable individual.

        Clearly, you don’t know Sajadi, commander in chief of Pale Moon’s troll army.

        Leave. Nobody wants, let alone needs you here.

      3. Sam Hauser said on March 3, 2019 at 4:27 pm

        @Iron Heart:

        Our range of activity enables us to participate in many different subjects:

        1) botnet research/investigation
        2) identity theft research/investigation
        3) mobbing/bullying research/investigation
        4) general spam/fraud research/investigation
        5) researching/investigating/reporting of other general computer/network related incidents

        Additionally we are taking part in the following range of activities=

        1) Informing companies about flaws/bugs if we should discover something like that on their end
        2) We are/have been reporting bugs towards Chromium/Firefox

        Also we have contact to so-called whistle-blower-lawyers – should a case grow too large/complicated – in that situation we can forward the client to law specialists which can help them in a much more in-depth way in certain situations

        What we as collective never would do, is taking part in unethical activities. In general we either accept clients if we should feel it is of importance – and in many cases we are getting involved without being tasked.

  17. Stan said on February 23, 2019 at 5:03 pm

    “Do you have any idea what the meaning of White-Hat actually is? ”

    Yes, it referred to the color of cowboy hats in Movies and TV back when oaters were big.

    White hat = good guy
    Black hat = bad guy

  18. Hans said on February 24, 2019 at 1:41 am

    the addon UnMHT save Page as MHT no longers work, reading works fine. odd it worked fine last version (tested with fresh new profile)

    1. Alex said on February 24, 2019 at 10:15 am
  19. Rust All The Things GO Mozilla said on February 24, 2019 at 8:35 am

    Thanks but thanks, a browser without a sandbox in 2019 is an ABOMINATION, I myself managed to make an easy RCE for Palemoon back then when my knowledge about fuzzing is extremely minimal. Kill it with fire already (or add a sandbox to it)!

  20. Chris Cummings USA RET. said on March 27, 2019 at 7:02 pm

    You people seem to know more about these things then myself. However I use Palemoon and like it a lot better than firefox. Firefox is installed on 2 of my computers, it is okay but the simplicity of palemoon appeals to my nature. Over the years firefox has become annoying to me one example is the search drop down and suggestions sure one can configure this to stop.It has become bloated somewhat it is fast and loads fast but so does palemoon. Vivaldi and Palemoon just make me feel comfotable. Never had an issue with either one that caused me bad problems. I leave the advanced technical insight to the more advanced.

  21. EP said on March 29, 2019 at 4:18 pm

    hi Martin.

    Pale Moon version 28.4.1 got released a few days ago, which contain new security fixes

  22. Jody Thornton said on April 22, 2019 at 9:48 pm

    I take it that my last comment was not approved? you could edit it and at least post the anti-Waterfox sentiment that Matt Tobin posted. some may find it relevant.

    1. Martin Brinkmann said on April 22, 2019 at 10:07 pm

      Jody, you can post the link and have your say, but please no personal attacks or inflammatory language.

    2. Lord-Lestat said on April 29, 2019 at 5:11 pm

      What is always fun to see is how the so-called “liberals” or people with general left-left-leaning opinion or how they call themselves also from time to time – “progressives” always enforce their double-headed-morality!

      Mozilla is allowed to speak out against Conservatives/Christians, mock power users and the die-hard-Firefox-fan-base is allowed to write against every single browser project out there and gets away with mocking feature enthusiasts, while the Pale Moon guys and/or general Firefox/Mozilla critics are… buhuuu – always the devil, which has to be driven out with a burning stick made out of superior “gender-ideology certified code of conduct” – while at the same time this does not apply to the other party!

      Highly amusing :-D

  23. Jody Thornton said on April 23, 2019 at 12:49 pm

    This link is a tad better (that way it goes to the top of the page)

  24. Jody Thornton said on April 30, 2019 at 11:45 pm


    I’m not saying you’re wrong, but can you provide evidence that Mozilla is actually disparaging Christians and Conservatives? I mean, this I have to see.

    By the way, I also feel the same way about the MozillaZine group as I now do about Pale Moon. Ever notice how guys like Frank Lion and Malliz think they own the place? Should you dare mention the phrase “Pale Moon”, you get either banned or the thread gets locked. They stir up trouble too. So I know full well that the Pale Moon group isn’t the only on that brings attention to themselves this way.

    In fact, I really used to think that Moon-Matt were cool, and I loved Pale Moon – until,,, you disagree with them. That’s what changed my view.

  25. Lord-Lestat said on May 1, 2019 at 3:21 pm

    Well, first, it is no secret that Mozilla has a leader team/developer team which falls under the dedicated left side of the political spectrum – and has like the Google team – an animosity against everything Conservative/Right-Wing-populist – while for example Pale Moon falls not under this category.

    Mozilla has not supported Brendan Eich enough – They banned the Dissenter extension from their store – for Mozilla everything which falls not under the left category is fake-news

    I really do not care how you feel about Mozillazine and their users, i also do not care why you feel bad about Frank Lion or Malliz. That is all not interesting, that is all not the point.

    The point which YOU have mentioned now by yourself – and you have DENIED in the past that you have beef with them or harass them on purpose because whatever is this:

    “until,,, you disagree with them”

    – No DRM
    – No minimalism
    – Their decision for refusing to constantly updating to the latest Firefox code

    If someone DOES NOT agree with a certain direction – the one moves on and finds another more useful hobby. The fact that you have not and you had to face instead the consequence and attack the browser itself, the makers and their users – says everything what is necessary to know about YOURSELF.

    You hide your criticism under an well-intentioned-extremist trope – that it is your “journalist duty” to make others aware of the “crimes” done by the Pale Moon team – while the real reason WHY you do it is hurt pride.

  26. Jody Thornton said on May 1, 2019 at 5:38 pm

    Wow! Lord-Lestat, you really need to calm the hell down. I was not trying to wage war with you again. And if you can’t appreciate or care about hearing about comparable issues I had with Frank Lion at MozillaZine, then they’s why you are blind to how Pale Moon’s team deals with disagreement. Then I can never have any real discussion with you.

    By the way, please dig up where I said I denied having a beef with Frank Lion or Malliz. I don’t believe I ever said that. If you think other wise, you need to back that up. Produce that for me please, or keep quiet on that front.

    And no, you don’t always look the other way in the face of disagreement. How the heck can change ever happen that way? That’s just running away.

    And where do you see me as “extremist” Lord-Lestat? I think you are making some dangerous statements there. Populist politics (which it sounds like you’re saying you adhere to) doesn’t necessarily constitute smart thinking. It’s just what uinformed masses wish to hear. If that describes you, then you’re …. well, I’ll be nice. Just the fact that you had to fling around the term “fake news” demonstrates your blind zeal.

    You need to show that Breandan Eich is biased against Conservative and Christians, and that somehow interferes in his work at Mozilla. You made the statement – now back it up.

  27. Lord-Lestat said on May 1, 2019 at 8:41 pm

    @Jody Thornton!

    First, i am calm. You have so far never seen me not being calm. And i am sure you do not want to see me NOT calm. I am not interested in waging a war with you either – what we had so far have been little unimportant disputes – I always want to keep my calm for various reasons :-D

    First is first… What is a well intentioned extremist?

    I said you hide BEHIND this trope while having other motives (instead or additionally).

    2) Fake news….

    There are for sure right-wing fake news and also left-wing fake news. This term does not apply only to one single party.

    3) Brendan Eich

    was not AGAINST conservatives but supported them! He left his place in the end free willingly – and why? He donated to a group which supports traditional marriage. But the point is, Mozilla could have made him stay and defend him.

    The point that they sided with the protesters and did nothing is quite telling. You can Google/Duckduckgo/Yahoo this simply on your own.

    Also the reason why you had beef with Mozillazine is not interesting for me as that was your business and your business alone.

    I think we are done here, as all open questions are answered. You can agree with this?

  28. Jody Thornton said on May 2, 2019 at 8:59 am

    @Lordy Lord wrote:

    “I think we are done here, as all open questions are answered. You can agree with this?”

    Hey Lordstat, you’re the one that started ranting and raving when I brought up Matty’s Waterfox comments. And you’re the one that keep making all of these political suggestions about Moziila (when I really don’t think they’re that founded). Besides, it appears that you just don’t like anything that’s left or progressive. I work with someone like you, and he’s an upset to the office.

    I’ll leave you to your looniness.

  29. Lord-Lestat said on May 2, 2019 at 5:21 pm

    And again it was fully visible what for a kind of character the remaining Mozilla-cheering-crowd does have in general – which was leading to closing the PM 25 article comment section!

    – Spreading their usual half-truth with the actual topic having actually negligible/non-serious real-world effect or which is a non-issue for Pale Moon users because of their work-around methods

    – showing to have ZERO character or morality or ANY style other than being aggressive and intolerant in their fanatic Pro-Mozilla attitude

    – Unable to react in a proper way when displaying to them their hypocrisy and falling back to profanity over and over again – and going full Troll mode

    – Showing over and over again why today’s Mozilla community is so much inferior to the one of power users and geeks in Mozilla’s past – power users and geeks had in comparison style AND intelligence

    – Unable to deliver fully detailed issue analysis of their half-truth and showing both being clueless and cowardice

    – Hiding their anti-customization/anti-feature attitude behind pseudo security blablabla and even more intolerance

    Mozilla and their radical followers these days – it is truly disgusting what happened to a once so proud and awesome browser developer – a development which started when they have intentionally replaced their core user-group for simple/Chrome users with zero respect for everything which is non-generic and non-simple!