Microsoft's bid to make Bing the default Firefox search engine
Microsoft's Bing search engine could soon become the default search engine of Mozilla's Firefox web browser.
All web browsers come with a default search engine that is used when users run searches. Browser developers like Mozilla partner with search engines. In exchange for that prime spot in the browser, search engines pay browser developers a fee. Mozilla earns hundreds of millions from its search deal with Google while Apple is raking in billions from its deal with Google.
Both deals run out later in 2023. Before the rise of AI powered search, it looked as if Google Search would remain the default search engine in Firefox and Apple's ecosystem. Now, with Bing on an all-time high thanks to Bing Chat and other advances, Microsoft is apparently considering getting a bigger piece of the search pie.
A report by The Information suggests that Microsoft plans to bid to make Bing the default search engine of the Firefox web browser. Specifics are unknown at this point, but the move could give Bing a push and chip away a few points from Google Search's dominating lead.
Switching default search engines is a complicated task. Most deals, at least those in the past, have agreed to make the new search engine the default for new users only or for users who have not changed the search engine.
Advertising revenue from Bing appears to be lower than that of Google Search, and Microsoft might have to add some spices to the deal to convince Mozilla to make Bing the default.
Microsoft could get more eyes on its Bing search engine. While a percentage of Firefox users might switch back to Google or another search engine, most might continue using the search engine that is the default in the browser.
The Information notes that Microsoft could also bid against Google to make Bing the default search engine in Apple's ecosystem. The much larger deal, Google is paying Apple billions, would give Bing a significant push and Google a worrying defeat.
Mozilla and Apple are in a good negotiation position this year. Google wants its Search engine to remain the default search engine in Firefox and also on Apple devices and products. With Microsoft bidding as well, both could end up with a better deal.
Now You: which search engine do you favor currently?
“Most deals, at least those in the past, have agreed to make the new search engine the default for new users only or for users who have not changed the search engine.”
Browsers with search deals often reset the default search engine through various dishonest tricks (a “bug” after an update, or an inviting but deceitful “refresh your browser ?” suggestion that will pop up, and so on…), and swear their mother every f-ing time that it was not intentional, then do it again and again. A change of default search engine would be an even better excuse for one more resetting “bug” or “feature”, or would that be, for them to be sure that an evil search engine that is not theirs did not hijack your browser. And of course they made it slowly more painful with time for the user himself to change and customize the search engine too, to the point that it has really become an IT professional-complexity level thing for some parts that should have been trivial to inspect and modify.
They make adblockers vanish periodically through similar tricks, and also reset hardened privacy settings. If you set up Firefox for your friends, don’t expect that it will stay as you set it for very long if you don’t come back at it regularly.
Anyway I doubt that Microsoft will win, but if it does I’m not sure this will change anything. They’re aligned with Google in their evilness, they wouldn’t make a better master for Mozilla.
> Now You: which search engine do you favor currently?
I recently gave Yandex a try, and boy the difference with the standard search engines is staggering. Even non-standards such as Mojeek and Metger don’t give the variety of non-standard sources.
Plus, Yandex is fast.
I don’t see why anyone could be calm about this, except in a uncaring “but I don’t use firefox” way.
MS are not ones to just settle for placement as default search. There are going to be strings attached, probably in way of ‘here is a binary blob / module you have to insert into firefox, ELSE horrible contractual consequences & obstruction, you dependent businessless beggars’.
They’ve recently been caught “telemetry”ing every url you open in Edge to bing (or at least a webfacing domain tied to that).
In other news they have also declared that, going forward, links in Teams and some other things will be force opened in Edge, bypassing default browser.
Naturally a lot a people are fuming furious about that. I’ll explain.
Links on teams etc, are often both ‘inside the perimeter’ and sensitive/confidential.
Even if you can not visit them directly from outsite the lan/vpn, they can leak a lot of stuff (lots of things can be and often is in a url, like project names, credentials, etc.). Then there is of course the mining of meta-stuff like who are working on said projects, how many, amount of activity on it, etc.
Shitload of stuff you don’t want to to share outside the company and usually often not with anyone not involved. And those who are will be under NDA/confidentiality agreements in any case. Tell be again how you can be sure bard/MS won’t leak any of that, and what crippling penalties MS will agree to pay if it does? To say nothing of intentionally using/renting/selling access to that.
So now they (admins, CIOs, etc.) have to jump through hoops to anonymize their internal url structures to limit the fallout of bings nose being all up in there, on a level that means their urls are just cryptogarbled 64digit hexadecimal strings. And it has to be done on everything, so the important stuff does not stick out like a sore thumb.
Or stop using said MS products, which they can’t get management to get onboard with, yet, because most those fatcats are way behind the curve on important topics that can have big implications for their business/party/government/agency. Those kind of people are more interested in getting things stuffed into the cloud (externalize and outsource) to get rid of these expensive “IT janitors” who tell them annoying things like using hard passwords and not staying logged in and ‘that’s against GDPR and would bankrupt me if I implemented that and it got caught’.
Instead opting for subcontractors from india, usa and elsewhere who will happily violate GDPR for you (and sell out all your business data too), who also don’t give them static about their itsec practices and ignorance in that field. They *like* your ignorance, makes it easier to upsell and exploit, unlike inhouse staff that are more likely to be on the same side as your company.
Here’s an idea. Google, Firefox and others pay us to use their search engine.
It’s a win, win.
Good idea. And MS to pay us to use W11. Still better.
@Brad > “As a non-profit, perhaps they should stop wasting vast sums of money developing a browser engine hardly anyone uses; then maybe they could afford to partner with privacy-orientated search engines that are a better match for their and their users’ values.”
IMHO, as I said in some other comments, Firefox should convert the normal branch in the ESR one, with the aim of saving resources and make the FF browser the most secure one for e-commerce and also invest a lot of money to make possible the use of the electronic identification cards (e.g. DNIe). Currently there is a complete madness to install the PKCS#11 module in Firefox just to use it (my father made a party when he installed it after days and days trying it, in Chrome/Edge/Brave it works in one second with no requirements).
Neither Bing nor Google are a good match for Firefox’s supposed values. Firefox partnering with either is a cop out to be honest.
As a non-profit, perhaps they should stop wasting vast sums of money developing a browser engine hardly anyone uses; then maybe they could afford to partner with privacy-orientated search engines that are a better match for their and their users’ values.
> As a non-profit, perhaps they should stop wasting vast sums of money developing a browser engine hardly anyone uses….
No, privacy-conscious people, organizations, and institutions avoid applications that run on JavaScript engines (chromium).
In response to this demand, Tor Browser, Mullvad Browser, LibreWolf, Floorp, and others have endorsed Firefox, which run on HTML engine. There are people and organizations that need Firefox and support Firefox.
https://www.ghacks.net/2023/05/10/thunderbird-donations-have-jumped-by-over-100-in-2022/#comment-4565800
https://www.ghacks.net/2023/05/10/thunderbird-donations-have-jumped-by-over-100-in-2022/#comment-4565821
@owl
Nonsense comment, all browsers can render HTML and JavaScript. Firefox’s JS engine is called SpiderMonkey, the Chromium equivalent is called V8. You jumped the shark with this comment.
The situation with Firefox is about to grow worse.
All the AI in Bing, Its still useless and a big waste of time.
I don’t think people fully grasp the impact of the search engine contract.
Every time you install FF it MUST initially report back with a small amount of data because of the contract compliance – aka you don’t have access to the default-release folder to put your “hardened” prefs.js or user.js files until you start the browser.
It’s not just “I can change my default search engine later”, it affects your privacy without giving you any choice whether to comply or not.
And if people don’t find that offensive, intrusive and disgusting, it’s because they’ve been conditioned through long term bit-by-bit exposure with similar treatment, and are now defending the comfort zone with the most ridiculous non-arguments one can think of.
@Cor Invictus,
Your argument is quite extreme!
Everyone who uses a Windows machine is initially connected to “bing”.
Even if it is Google or Firefox, you have to start Edge first to get started. If that is the case, Bing is better.
Aside from that, the behavior of the default search engine in Firefox is as follows:
Geolocation for default search engine:
In order to set the right default search engine for your location, Firefox will perform a geolocation lookup once by contacting Mozilla’s servers and store the country-level result locally. This connection happens on the first start of Firefox – in case you want to prohibit that, you will have to preconfigure the browser and set the browser.search.geoip.url preference to a blank string.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-stop-firefox-making-automatic-connections | support.mozilla.org
Do you really need to do clean installations that often in the first place?
Your understanding or operation is wrong.
Whether it is an update or an installation, the “Settings” are inherited and never changed.
The “Settings” are stored locally ?C:\Users\UserName\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles?as a “Profile” separate from the program (Firefox) directory ?C:\Program Files\Mozilla Firefox), so it cannot be default unless you manually delete the Profile.
Firefox options, preferences and settings
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/firefox-options-preferences-and-settings | support.mozilla.org
This article summarizes the Firefox Settings panels and what types of settings they contain. Click the menu button Fx89menuButton and select Settings. The following panels are available:
How to fix preferences that won’t save
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/how-to-fix-preferences-wont-save | support.mozilla.org
Sometimes, after changing Firefox settings, the changes are not saved. Possible Causes and Solutions FAQ
Does anyone know the exact number of daily connections of W10 to its own spyware servers? And then ask yourself about Firefox, Chrome, Edge, and all the bloatware apps of W10.
> “And if people don’t find that offensive, intrusive and disgusting, it’s because they’ve been conditioned through long term bit-by-bit exposure with similar treatment, and are now defending the comfort zone with the most ridiculous non-arguments one can think of.”
Not really, people can find it offensive, intrusive and disgusting, however it’s so common to suffer this kind of situations that nobody really care about it. Only using Linux with some Firefox fork would give you all the real privacy with obvious with the little cost of not being able to use in an easy way those apps that only run with Windows. Unless you use Wine or PlayOnLinux.
Personally I do not care so much which is the default search engine, so long there is a method to choose your preferred search engine: DuckDuckGo in my case. If FF would not allow me to switch search engine and make Bing the default, than I am out of FF!
> If FF would not allow me to switch search engine….
Well, it doesn’t happen.
I am an iPad user, and even Apple devices, which absolutely prioritize their own products, allow to change the search engine of Safari (Apple’s browser).
Any browser can change the search engine.
Coming soon an article about Chrome being the default browser for Onedrive.
That would likely restrict user choice and infringe the EU Digital Markets Act which states that user choice is paramount. https://commission.europa.eu/strategy-and-policy/priorities-2019-2024/europe-fit-digital-age/digital-markets-act-ensuring-fair-and-open-digital-markets_en#who-are-the-gatekeepers
@TelV, the EU is itself the first institution that restricts the user’s choices in so many ways, however it would meant a political discussion and my comment would be banned. Indeed thanks for the provided link, full of good words about good promising wishes by people who don’t really care to get rid of the problem. I bet you that the EU will do nothing, and also I bet you again that they won’t have courage to look at the Microsoft’s face to tell him the inexcusable need to let the user to unblock the uninstallation of Edge and Defender (just to allow uninstall both them in an easy way, poor users).
@John G. it’s not that elaborating a discussion about your assertion would be political, it’s that your assertion is technically and legally wrong : “the EU is itself the first institution that restricts the user’s choices in so many ways” is totally erroneous. On the contrary the EU is all committed to users’ privacy in a way found perhaps nowhere else and its instances are perhaps the only ones to stand in front of the GAFAM. Now, that this concern for users is free of collateral effects is another problematic tied to the fact that when a tool is made available for one’s privacy it of course implies one’s involvement, i.e. with cookies permission which bother us all but which basically force Websites to display the banner we all dislike but which obliges those websites to a minimum of transparency regarding cookies, even if there are still some fraudulent sites who try to bypass their obligations.
@Tom Hawack, I can sure you that the EU statements and efforts about privacy related affairs are just an illusion themselves. The sensation that the Europeans are being protected against common (not rough) privacy affairs is that, only a sensation. And please, let me to develop the explanation about my phrase “the EU is itself the first institution that restricts the user’s choices in so many ways”:
1. There is no real privacy protection because mostly all the companies has their main offices in the USA. And even Yandex main office is in Russia and TikTok headquarters are in China. What privacy do you really expect, being serious? Do you really believe that the EU has really the power to control those sink holes?
2. There is no real privacy because a single popup only informs you about the things you can do if you agree ALL the cookies they give you to accept. Just disallow ones and you will see the trimmed not so good operational websites that can be traced with fingerprinting. LOL.
3. There is no real user’s protection because there are tons of online commerce with Amazon, Alibaba (and its forks), just saying two examples. Have you think that every time you buy something to China and the USA your data flies away to those countries? Privacy what?
4. The EU doesn’t care a single little cent about the user’s protection because there is no MAIN at the XXI century a single project to contain the online fraud, that has been a systematic headache with hackers stealing and asking ransoms after attacking hospitals, enterprises, official institutions and so forth. There is an European Seal about privacy however there is no “security seal” neither an European unique certificate for browsers (i.e., standard EU padlock, I don’t know how to explain this).
I could make some more reasons, however I am very busy now, sorry about that.
(continued from above)
5. One of the worst restrictions that the EU makes to the European users is the fact that W10/W11 has the biggest telemetry ever inside an OS made by Microsoft. And the EU hasn’t move a single finger to avoid it, to solve it, or even to help the users to neutralize all the spyware with same laws in these way. Also the EU doesn’t help neither with the tracking methods inside of Chrome, Edge, and so forth.
6. Another one weird restriction that the EU are doing right now is the absolutely control on the common main DNS that all mobile/phone companies have by default. In the other hand we have the Cloudflare ones, that don’t store sensible data over 48h, and never stores the IP. If the EU wanted really privacy, the DNS, all of them, should be really anonymous.
7. And the last but not least, that is my mind, is the lie about we have privacy in Europe and then we can be tracked by Pegasus and some other spy apps because there is no law against these methods… because the own countries are using them!
Sorry about to continue the above post, I was busy. Thanks @Tom, good weekend! :]
@John G.
Well Apple had to pay fine for throttling and since then iPhone throttling has stopped and when Apple does it, it shows that to users and a choice to continue that or take another route. Also Apple is ditching lightning connector and users will benefit from USB Type-C standard, and Apple will earn less profit since Lightning was proprietatory. You can be pessimist regarding slow progress when it comes to user data privacy measures but EU is leading the front and holding on well, and don’t go to that negative route, you’ll struggle to drink your coffee or use everyday products since there is a dark side to basically everything and privacy is just one of it when it comes to tech.
@Yash, nice point of view. However, > “You can be pessimist regarding slow progress when it comes to user data privacy measures but EU is leading the front and holding on well,”, I am not pessimist. Indeed I like how EU are fighting for the privacy, doing nothing really. You can’t control privacy if the main offices of the companies are located in other areas and all the data stored are transferred to them from the EU to USA, Russia, China, South Korea and Japan. Who is controlling that these data are not sent? Nobody. Believe me, nobody.
Laws are good. Apply them is better.
@John G.
‘You can’t control privacy if the main offices of the companies are located in other areas and all the data stored are transferred to them from the EU to USA, Russia, China, South Korea and Japan. Who is controlling that these data are not sent? Nobody.’
I think that is down to these companies being created in those countries. If you want to control your data you need to encourage citizens to create companies on your land. But that is impossible because EU needs a lot of catching up to do behind US. So when it comes to privacy and specifically where your data is going EU can’t do anything. It however can atleast take measures against Big tech monopoly. But there comes main question comes – how many people are willing to consider alternatives if they were available or are available right now?
Even if YouTube doubles ads, normies will still watch it.
All you and me can do is consider and switch to alternatives as much as possible so minimum user data is gathered by big tech, use adblockers and spent least amount of money on big tech products. More importantly educate your friends. But then comes the same question again: how many people are going to consider alternatives? I can tell from my experience, most don’t care. Even people who consider themselves intelligent are paying eight bucks to elmo musk. The problem is basically ignorance of people. EU can’t change that, no one can.
> Even if YouTube doubles ads, normies will still watch it.
Reminds me that Google tested as much as 10 ads in 2022 in between some videos. Also, they are apparently doing testing now for anti adblocking, currently rolling out for some users.
@Yash, I agree. Indeed the whole question is that the EU is an economic union, not a Federal States Union like the USA. Here in Europe everyone wants to rule, everyone wants to have the power in industry, the energy, the culture and so forth. In the last five years I have read some problems and troubles, as I have in memory for example Germany vs France for the gas, France vs Italy for the electricity, Italy vs Spain for the petrol pipelines, Spain vs Greece for the economic aid, Portugal vs Holland for the agricultural taxes, Ireland vs Poland for the financing debts, all these fights can be read in the newspapers along the time. The only agreements are just to spend more and more money doing things that nobody needs, forgetting the eternal drought of the Southern countries, the defensive spending on the eastern borders and so forth. No agreement at all to save money using Linux in the EU for everything (some authors said that they will save more than 150M euros per year in licenses, 1500M euros for ten years). No agreement with internet security, no creation of an EU firewall neither the obligation of using solid and secure operating systems in enterprises and public institutions. If they can’t do that, how the EU may think that we can have an EU Tiktok or an EU Whatsapp? EU is a massive consumer of digital content, it is useless for anything else in this sense. However, I agree you with all you said.
Firefox natively makes it easy to change its default search engine but only within those natively available.
To add a search engine you have to install a dedicated extension such as [https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/add-custom-search-engine/]
I don’t quite understand the underlying logic of not providing the feature of adding a search engine : users who run the browser as it is, likely not changing the default search engine with another native one are unlikely to add one … whilst those who may change to another would find it handy to not have to install an extension to do so.
Of course it is possible to add a search engine from ‘Mycroft Project – Search Engines’ [https://mycroftproject.com/search-engines.html] but the list of engines, even if important, is limited. And I find it cumbersome, not to mention that the search url may be outdated…
Search is an essential component, this explains of course implied business income but nevertheless shouldn’t impact on the availability of a native ‘Add search engine’ feature.
> Now You: which search engine do you favor currently?
It doesn’t matter to me what the default search engine is.
Anyone with some skill, including myself, can easily replace it with something they like.
The issue is to make such a method explicit.
Well, history shows that many people have no interest in such things, so no big deal.
In short, the question will be whether you can reach out to people who don’t know what to do.
In general terms:
In corporate relations, the system’s operating system is a “Microsoft” product and is a monopoly. Even from the maintenance agreement, corporate relations “prohibit the addition of third-party products to the system or the modification of defaults,” which are strictly locked down by the GP. In other words, Google search cannot be used, and Bing is the only choice.
Google search is used by people living in a society who are not corporate officials.
Its people living in a society usually use the browser of the product (PC or other device) because the opportunity to acquire skills is rare. Since this is mostly Windows, it is Edge, and Bing search is the starting point.
No one who can switch to Google search (or Google chrome or Firefox) will continue to use it by default.
This topic would not really create an upset to the end user (unless some influential idiot instigated it).
Google, which dominates the market with its search engine, will only take a hit.
Google’s market domination is merely the result of Google chrome and Google search becoming popular because Apple products and Firefox displayed a “Give Google a try.” button and the uninformed pressed that button.
Every minute, the clock is ticking, the generations are changing. Sic transit gloria mundi” is the way of the world.
Change your default search settings in Firefox
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/change-your-default-search-settings-firefox
The Search panel in Firefox Settings lets you customize your search options. You can add or remove search engines, change your default search engine, assign or change keyword shortcuts, turn the search bar on or off, and choose whether to display search suggestions first or not at all.
Add or remove a search engine in Firefox
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/add-or-remove-search-engine-firefox
Firefox comes with a number of available search engines by default. Many websites offer search engines that you can add to Firefox. This allows you to search with that website’s search engine, directly from your Firefox address bar or Search bar. This article explains how to add or remove the search engines that Firefox uses.
Now you see that doesn’t work. I removed DuckDuckGo quite a while back, back figured it might be useful still.
But to restore it, I have to use the option to “Restore default search engines” as described in your first link. However, that will mean that I’ll lose all my custom search engines in the process and I’m not going to do that.
I use an addon called “ContextSearch web-ext” to search for something speciffic on a site using the context menu, but I can no longer make DDG the default search engine because it doesn’t appear in the list anymore.
@TelV,
But the reality is much simpler.
Just simply search for “duckduckgo” and visit the duckduckgo website and you should be able to add it.
Even if you don’t search for
https://duckduckgo.com/
is the official site.
Put this into practice,
Other search engines (DuckDuckGo, Brave, GitHub, Mozilla Support, MozillaWiki, MDN Web Docs, Bugzilla@Mozilla, Firefox add-ons,
MozillaZine.jp Forum, IT dictionary of terms e-Words, etc.) can easily be added.
In my case,
Default search engine is “DDG”.
I have already removed Google, Bing, Amazon, Facebook, and Twitter, which are initially bundled with Firefox (about:preferences#search).
Some idiots who don’t know what’s going on loudly insist that when the version is upgraded, “You’ll be reverted back to the default search engine!”. But this is never the case. The user’s settings will always be inherited.
Naturally, the “default” is when a clean install is performed or a refresh (restore to initial state) is performed.
Lately Bing gives me more useful results than Google, so i am ok with that. Besides that, maybe it will also allow me to talk with my “Bing ?” waifu inside FF.
This could actually end up being a blow to Firefox, because most people expect “their Google” to be there and when it isn’t, they end up confused. Bring it on!
Bing it on!
With regards to search engine, Mozilla needs to add Google to top sites and everything will be fine even if Bing becomes search engine partner. Having Yahoo as your primary search engine is one thing, having Bing who’s also riding the AI wave is a different league.
Still Mozilla is in a better position to negotiate as Google doesn’t have all the leverage.
@Yash
You think Mozilla will be better off when Google transfers their slave company to Microsoft? I don’t think so. Google seems to be laid back so far except likely unofficially requiring them not to enable most privacy settings by default and to not ship an adblocker by default. I fully expect Microsoft to bully them more than Google ever did, which will be interesting to watch. And adding Google to top sites is not going to cut it, as a whole lot of people still would not know how to make it the default search engine. Plus, you can bet that Microsoft would prevent that.
Bard will soon be as good as ChatGPT, if you don’t think Google has the technical acumen to pull it off, then I don’t know what to say anymore.
> as a whole lot of people still would not know how to make it the default search engine.
Err, it requires like couple of clicks to change it. It is not like Mozilla is forcing you to use Bing. IMO, whatever brings Mozilla the most money, that option they should/would choose since this is their primary source of income.
This should be not be a controversial decision. Controversial decisions are changing browser’s UI or rendering old add ons unusable which results in either more userChrome tweaks or forks of Firefox.
> Bard will soon be as good as ChatGPT,
Recent Hot News:
Google employees slam CEO Sundar Pichai for ‘rushed’ Bard announcement
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/10/google-employees-slam-ceo-sundar-pichai-for-rushed-bard-announcement.html
Some Googlers reportedly aren’t happy about Bard’s ‘rushed’ announcement – The Verge
https://www.theverge.com/2023/2/11/23595496/google-rushed-bard-announcement-report
$120bn wiped off Google after Bard AI chatbot gives wrong answer
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/2023/02/08/googles-bard-ai-chatbot-gives-wrong-answer-launch-event/
Bard is an experimental conversational AI service, powered by LaMDA. Built using our large language models and drawing on information from the web, it’s a launchpad for curiosity and can help simplify complex topics ? https://t.co/fSp531xKy3 pic.twitter.com/JecHXVmt8l
— Google (@Google)
Google Bard AI Chatbot Raises Ethical Concerns From Employees – Bloomberg
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-04-19/google-bard-ai-chatbot-raises-ethical-concerns-from-employees
Apparently my manager’s manager sent an email my direct reports saying she accepted my resignation. I hadn’t resigned—I had asked for simple conditions first and said I would respond when I’m back from vacation. But I guess she decided for me :) that’s the lawyer speak.
— @timnitGebru@dair-community.social on Mastodon (@timnitGebru)
@Anonymous
Yeah exactly, the current state of Bard is the final state, they will never ever improve it from now on. This is it. It’s permanently broken. What even is development?
And why do I even bother?
‘You think Mozilla will be better off when Google transfers their slave company to Microsoft? I don’t think so. Google seems to be laid back so far except likely unofficially requiring them not to enable most privacy settings by default and to not ship an adblocker by default. I fully expect Microsoft to bully them more than Google ever did, which will be interesting to watch.’
TCP is enabled by default and users can change ETP protections in main settings. Plus uBO is available on every platform. How’s Brave doing in that regard since it doesn’t have Google funding but has a Google browser code? Does Brave Android has add-ons, TCP? Does it enable strict mode by default? Will Brave support Manifest V2 extensions? So much for Mozilla being a slave company.
‘And adding Google to top sites is not going to cut it, as a whole lot of people still would not know how to make it the default search engine. Plus, you can bet that Microsoft would prevent that.’
Like why would write that when it doesn’t make sense? People won’t even click on a site which is available right in front of their eyes!
‘Bard will soon be as good as ChatGPT, if you don’t think Google has the technical acumen to pull it off, then I don’t know what to say anymore.’
How’s BARD doing anyway? It’s not even working well for Google employees. This ChatGPT has caught Google cold. Why is Google suddenly after adblockers? Because it knows it main business model – search engine is under threat from ChatGPT and is currently trying to rake more money from YouTube and other products.
This Bing scenario is good for Mozilla as it gives Mozilla more leverage and possibly more money which is huge. That’s the main point.
> TCP is enabled by default and users can change ETP protections in main settings.
Why should I care? Partitioning of local cookies (for which “Total Cookie Protection” is the phony marketing term) is irrelevant as even Google no longer wants to use them. Instead, they are exploring other options like Google Topics, or, failing that, outright fingerprinting you which can be done server-side. Partitioning of local state does nothing against that, it protects against tracking techniques from the 90s.
Enhanced Tracking Protection is a joke based on the weak Disconnect list. I could add that list to Brave Shields and have the same thing, except I run more powerful lists already and not this pathetic nonsense.
> Plus uBO is available on every platform.
Available is not the same as included by default. Firefox has 200 million users, and according to AMO uBlock Origin has 6 million users on Firefox. Do the math. It’s very advantageous for Google that Firefox doesn’t ship with an adblocker by default.
> How’s Brave doing in that regard since it doesn’t have Google funding but has a Google browser code?
Anyone can use that code, but they do have independent funding, insofar they can do whatever they want with that code and don’t have to fear Big Tech cutting their funding. Mozilla has no products of its own that could ensure actual independence.
> Does Brave Android has add-ons, TCP?
Yes Brave has ephemeral storage and is compatible with all extensions that are compatible with Chrome.
> Does it enable strict mode by default?
You mean strict mode of the joke tracking protection Firefox ships with by default? Brave uses the EasyList and EasyPrivacy list by default already, it totally shits on “strict mode”.
> Will Brave support Manifest V2 extensions?
Why should it? It’s all about the adblockers and Brave has one built-in.
> Like why would write that when it doesn’t make sense? People won’t even click on a site which is available right in front of their eyes!
Opening google.com does not yet mean that people know how to make it the default search engine in their address bar.
> How’s BARD doing anyway?
As good as can be expected for a nascent product. If you think the current state is the final state, I beg to differ.
> This Bing scenario is good for Mozilla as it gives Mozilla more leverage and possibly more money which is huge.
Mozilla has no leverage. They are dependent on money flowing in from Big Tech. That the de facto overlordship now changes from Google to Microsoft (perhaps), changes nothing.
@Iron Heart
You brushed aside TCP, that makes sense since Chromium doesn’t have capable feature similar to TCP. You don’t know that Brave Android doesn’t support add-ons when you wrote it has same add-ons support as Chrome. It is hard for you to accept that the company which makes the browser base for Brave team to work upon as a fork in Google is struggling to kickstart Bard properly. And you’re angry since ChatGPT and Bing will give Mozilla more leverage to negotiate search engine deals better with either Microsoft or Google, which in turn will mean apart from Google and Apple, Mozilla will continue to provide a third browser engine on the market unlike Brave. As my first comment in this thread stated – It is good for Mozilla to be in better position to profit from search engine competition. Have some of that!
@Yash
> You brushed aside TCP, that makes sense since Chromium doesn’t have capable feature similar to TCP.
I am not brushing anything aside when I say that cookies are a tracking technique from the 1990s that is going extinct. That’s a fact. And Brave does have ephemeral storage, even Chrome partitions a lot of stuff. Did you even read my comment?
> You don’t know that Brave Android doesn’t support add-ons when you wrote it has same add-ons support as Chrome.
So? Brave does adblocking by default, has the functionality of Cookie AutoDelete and ClearURLs by default now. Mobile Firefox has like 20 extensions, half of which are shit. Only Kiwi has full extension support on Android.
> It is hard for you to accept that the company which makes the browser base for Brave team to work upon as a fork in Google is struggling to kickstart Bard properly.
I literally don’t care. I just think the assumption that Bard is permanently broken or in infant stage is deeply misguided, no matter what I personally think of Bard.
> And you’re angry since ChatGPT and Bing will give Mozilla more leverage to negotiate search engine deals better with either Microsoft or Google, which in turn will mean apart from Google and Apple, Mozilla will continue to provide a third browser engine on the market unlike Brave.
Didn’t you read my first comment? I don’t care whether they slave for Google or for Microsoft, chances are that MS will bully them more though, which will be fun to watch. Mozilla will bend over backwards for whoever is willing to fund them. And none of these Big Tech companies and their slaves have my best interests at heart.
Third browser engine has like 3% market share, I guess Pale Moon’s Goanna is the fourth engine then LMAO.
> As my first comment in this thread stated – It is good for Mozilla to be in better position to profit from search engine competition. Have some of that!
I don’t care for whom they slave.
WOW.
A 5% market share search engine as default in 4% market share browser !!!
Bing with ChatGPT inside could increase those numbers, don’t doubt it. Probably Firefox needs to move to Bing and forget Google, because Google is like a bear watching you in the forest, you will never know if they want to eat you or only salute you. Google always will help Chrome first.
For users it’s easily done and yet, they never do it.
Tendency is more and more buy some PC -> click on Edge -> ready for the internets
> For users it’s easily done and yet, they never do it.
The numbers tell a different story. When Yahoo was the default search engine in Firefox many people switched back to Google.
“Switching default search engines is a complicated task.”
I am not sure if you mean “It is complicated for user” or “It is complicated to implement in browser”?
To my knowledge it requires just few minutes for knowledgeable user to switch default search engine in top browsers like Edge, Chrome or Firefox.
I meant for companies who make the change in their products. For users, it is easily done.
Please no…
Some people reach their technical skills when it is unticking a box and ticking another it seems.