Mozilla may extend Firefox on Windows 7 and 8.1 support
With Windows 7 and 8.1 ending official support by Microsoft in January 2023, software companies face a tough decision: should they support the operating systems for longer, or drop support at the official end of support date.
Google announced that it will end support for Google Chrome on Windows 7 and Windows 8 in February 2023. The company told Chrome users who run the browser on devices powered by these operating systems that they could continue running Chrome 109, the last version to be released for Windows 7 and 8.1, but that the browser would not receive any more updates. Google did not reveal how large the browser's user base is on these two Windows operating systems.
Mozilla faces an equally tough decision. About 15% of Firefox users use the browser on Windows 7 and 8.1 machines. The percentage dropped significantly in the past couple of years, but is still almost as much as the percentage of all other operating systems that Firefox runs on, with the exception of the dominating Windows 10 platform. Firefox on all Linux distributions, on Mac, and all other versions of Windows, including Windows 8.1, also have a user base of about 15%.
Mozilla started to discuss the end of support for Windows 7 and 8.1 almost three years ago, but the thread on Bugzilla got traction only recently. A decision has not been made yet in regards to a potential support extension for these operating systems.
Mozilla considers two main options right now:
- End support in January 2023.
- Extend support until at least June 2023.
Ending support in January 2023 would alienate about 15% of the browser's user base. These users could continue to run the then-unsupported browser, similarly to how Chrome users can do so starting in February 2023. Some might move to a different browser, depending on whether it continues to be supported on their platform.
This option would remove a lot of headaches regarding testing, development tools and other tasks related to engineering. The downside would be that Firefox would lose a percentage of its user base over night.
The second option that Mozilla considers extends support until the release of the next Firefox ESR version. Firefox users on Windows 7 and 8.1 would be moved to Firefox 102 ESR, the current Extended Support Release branch, and would receive updates until Firefox 102 ESR is moved to Firefox 114 ESR; this happens in August 2023.
What appears to be clear is that Mozilla's support for Windows 7 and 8.1 will end in 2023. Firefox users who run the browser on Windows 7 or 8.1 devices have a number of options:
- Upgrade to Windows 10. A sizeable number of devices will be upgraded to Windows 10 once support runs out. Microsoft's dominating operating system is supported until 2025.
- Keep using the unsupported Firefox on the unsupported version of Windows.
- Switch to a web browser that continues to be supported and continue to run the unsupported version of Windows.
- Migrate to Linux and run Firefox on Linux.
All of these options either have a lengthy upgrade or migration process, or put the browser and/or system at risk because of the unsupported state.
Now You: do you use Windows 7 or 8.1? What will you do in January 2023? (via security.nl)
does not matter , I’m also all for free speech. Have to speak up loud and clear as many no longer care about our rights. Didn’t care for Mozilla in that fight either but tried Brave and didn’t like it. Also they seemed to care little about comments and suggestions from their users. Like so many we know that wield the power. Have you tried the LibreWolf browser and what about the new Mullvad browser? Any thoughts? Thanks for sharing.
W7 is primary here for any of my windows systems.. its far superior to the crap “service” of w10 and god forbit the pile of steaming crap.. aka w11..
It also is STILL supported for security via 0patch which is FREE for most people and will continue to be supported there for at least 2 more years…
Meanwhile Mozilla lost a ton of support including myself several years ago over the big fight about free speech.. to which we ended up with Brave browser from the smart side of that fight.
Now that said I still say FF needs to be supported even if its not the primary browser choice since it is the only viable alternative atm that is not chromium based..
What the dolts in charge at mozilla again fail to grasp in epic fashion is that if they cease support for w7.. not only do they loosse a ton of current users.. they fail to GAIN a bunch of users that will abandon chrome due to their failure to continue w7 support.
Also realistically the work needed to continue w7 support is minimal in the big picture.. so the ninnies saying “it will save us X” yet again fail to grasp the bigger picture.. same as they did with the freedom of speech issue.
That cost them not only a ton of primary users but it lost them devs that helped build FF such as myself and massive ton of others.. many of which I know (to varying levels).. and we ALL are big supporters for actual free speech..
So.. if Moz pulls their head out of their asses they could not only not loose more of their base they could use such to GROW it as well..
And yes it’s not as nice and polite as some posts… I honestly don’t care.. since polite dosnt get the job done esp with the bigwigs left at Moz that already proved they are beind out of touch with reality and are seriously dense.
Sad.. since I was an original dev in part since many years before FF even existed..
My daily PC for browsing is still W7. I really hate 10 and all the spying, some you can’t turn off. I doubt 11 is any better in that regard. I have to wonder if LibreWolf or Waterfox might not do something to continue support on 7 and 8.1. Is that even possible in your opinion? Might help their user numbers a bit. Thanks for the continued updates,Martin.
W7 is far better re spying and killing such off.. in w10 it can be 99% killed off with a bunch of work.. but really for 99% of things it os worse than 7.. (and everything they did actually fix or improve could have been added to w7 with ease.. M$ dosnt want w7 to continue since they want the telemetry and monetizing of US.. since thats big time $$$ and control for them..
As for waterfox etc… they essentially work on the same base code.. and then optimize it according to each ones goals.. similar to Brave and others using chromium engine..
But if Moz doesn’t pull their heads out of their collective asses and continue w7 support all of teh underlings most likely will loose w7 as well since most don’t have devs with time/skill avail for that work,
Also as I pointed out elsewhere.. Moz will loose yet more users if they don’t and they will also fail to GAIN more since Google refuses to continue w7 support.. (much to the benefit of M$ as well sadly)
I agree with you. And thanks for the detailed reply. Never cared for Waterfox since they were sold off to the ad company. And for me it uses more ram than FF.
Glad to see FF isn’t pulling support for Windows 7 and 8. It would have been stupid had they done that but not the first foolish thing they have ever done.
Why are WIndows 7 and WIndows 8.1 being lumped together here? Windows 7 support ended three years ago. Windows 8.1 support ended less than a week ago.
Further to Martin’s comment, it was no different when Vista and XP were lumped together for Firefox ESR 52 support. XP was older, but used WAY more than Vista. Windows 8x has an infinitesimal userbase, and did even during its prime period, compared to Windows 7.
Unfortunately not. I asked my contact and she wanted to get an answer back to me, but that was in early January and still no answer.
I got an answer today! Finally! It appears that Windows 7 and 8x will live on for Firefox ESR 115
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1594270
Windows 7 support could be extended by up to three years through ESU. Technically, Microsoft stopped producing updates for both operating systems at the same time. Also, Mozilla has more Windows 7 users than Windows 8.1 users.
@Martin:
Is there ANY update on this? I hope to know if ESR 115 is a go ahead, or does the buck stop at ESR 102? Will we know at least five months in advance?
It would make more sense to drop x86 builds for good. Anything with at least 4GB, a late Core2Duo and cheap ssd still works ok in SeaMonkey x64. And this is 2008/2009 stuff. Running 32 bit builds or with less than 4 GB these days is redefining the word “slow” with more complex websites. I barely test these builds any longer.
Unlike XP the Windows 7 api is not much different from 10 unless you want to build for the uwp / store or whatever api of the Microsoft day it is next. 11 with its bad taskbar, crippled context menus and new experimental features in every build is for something best left to guinea pigs or people with too much time on hand.
So unless third party libraries drop Windows 7 this is more of a political decision. Removing the few tweaks and build fixes for 7/8.1 from the mozilla codebase will not make it browser number 1 in no time or reduce support costs significantly.
FRG
Windows 7 is still the 2nd most popular OS among FF users, though it has dropped from 37% to 15% in the last four years.
https://data.firefox.com/dashboard/hardware
The third OS is under 5%. At this rate it would take 2 more years for W7 to drop to third place. To third place, not to last place.
Why are other OSs with way less market share supported but W7 isn’t?
It seems like a premature decision.
Still using Windows 8.1 here, not planning to upgrade (through i do dual-boot if needed) or even using Windows 10/11 much on something that already sh#tty (A Pentium E6700 CPU on 2009 Vista PC with only 3GB RAM, using it temporarily as my 2011 Gaming PC, capable of running Win10/11 more properly), as its always abnormally slows down and some programs and stuff keep crashing or having issues out of nowhere if running Win10 or newer (even with unofficial version debloated), and… (to avoid off-topic) about Firefox: With the Firefox, even if they drop Win 7/8.1, theres always the source code, and workarounds to getting it working again, i even saw some games or applications, requiring Windows 10, can still run on Windows 7 – 8.1 out of the box, which, the only thing they missed out is simply, anything related to technical support.
btw forgot to add the edit: my 2011 gaming PC broke so i used that 2009 Vista PC instead temporarily until i got a new PC when next year came and with companies revealing latest CPU, GPU, Motherboard and RAM i can afford.
Was just referred to this Bugzilla page for an update. Wow is Mozilla undecided.
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1594270
Windows 10 LTSC support sliced in half now: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3608930/microsoft-slashes-windows-10-long-term-support-by-half.html
According to the article, ultimately LTSC will be dropped altogether.
@TelV
Where can you get LTSC 2019? It’s supported until 2029, and I need to start thinking of post-Windows 8 options
IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 (Vibranium) is even better option since it’s supported until 2032 and it’s a newer build with more security improvements than the LTSC 2019 (Redstone 5), probably the last LTSC Win10/11 with 10 years Lifecycle, ms change their policy last year and from now on is going to support W11 LTSC versions with only 5 year support.
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle/products/windows-10-iot-enterprise-ltsc-2021
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Microsoft_Windows_versions
updated comments by Google support:
https://support.google.com/chrome/thread/185534985/sunsetting-support-for-windows-7-8-1-in-early-2023
“Chrome 109 is the last version of Chrome that will support Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1. Chrome 110 (tentatively scheduled for release on February 7th, 2023) is the first version of Chrome that requires Windows 10 or later.”
As 0Patch have announced that they will be providing subscribers with at least two additional years of security patches for Win 7, perhaps some of the various browser devs (Mozilla, LibreWolf, SRWare Iron Chromium, UnGoogled Chromium, FlashPeak Slimjet Chromium, etc.) will reevaluate their lifecycles.
(https://blog.0patch.com/2022/10/two-more-years-of-critical-security.html)
Even if these browsers stop supporting Win 7 we’ll have a solution for that too ;-)
“Windows 7 API Extensions”
https://github.com/vxiiduu/VxKex
https://i.ibb.co/KzfN42B/1.png
What’s party 2?
i think mozilla will do three stages of support for windows 7 and 8.1 firefox normal firefox until january 2023
Firefox 114 esr until August 2023
Firefox 114 esr party 2 until year 2024
As mozilla had done to support firefox and firefox esr on windows XP and Vista till year 2017 and 2018.
W7 is able to indexing a whole PC in more less time than the best version of W10/11.
Best OS made by Minionsoft ever, it is still working like the first day in may father’s laptop.
Thanks for the article!
I’ll simply switch to any browsers that continue to support Windows 7. Windows 10 and 11 are unsuitable.
Having grown fond of W7 I can only be happy for an extension of support.
Went from 8.1 with Classic Shell, whch was very nice, back to 7 because I missed Aero. I’ll move to 10 or 11 only when I begin to crave an OS that’s adversarial, insulting and miserable to use. Since that day may never come, MX Linux, Mint and Ubuntu Studio look like nice options. I’ll miss 8Gadget pack but life isn’t always perfect.
Maybe I’m stuck in the past and embracing garbage is modern but I don’t see it that way.
For me, a PiHoled, Locked-Down > Win7-Pro with Blackbird is the only way to go…It’s the only OS that sips data and runs super-fast on a 50-mile, straight-line ship to shore repeater, even in bad weather.
I have no need to upgrade past FireFox-51,
as my Netlimiter-Pro proves FF-51 still runs squeaky-clean and very quiet with
“” https://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/18/a-comprehensive-list-of-firefox-privacy-and-security-settings/ “”
I still use Pale-Moon with the same great
results.
Ahhh, the demise of beloved 8.1… a great, underrated os (as the perception of total failure induced by 8.0 wrongly (imo) hit 8.1 as well).
Am deploying this now: 10 ltsc (support ‘for an eternity’) + open shell + o&o shutup = a fine setup.
@ Anonymous,
Agree with you totally about Windows 8.1, but where to get W10 LTSC? As far as I can tell it’s only available to commercial organizations and not to ordinary consumers like myself.
@ Everybody else,
Otherwise, I’ll have to buy a Windows 10 machine since my current laptop is an Optimus machine and Linux distros won’t work on this kind of setup where two graphic chips (1x Intel and 1x Nvidia) are present on a single machine.
Even if I try to buy a new PC, the exchange rate is too high due to the high interest rates in the US, and it will be the same next year. I hope to support you until 2024.
Even Wacom is dropping support for Win7/8 with their latest update but Mozilla tries to seem cool supporting this old OS.
People can even get win10 for free in a completely new computer even if they built it, so they don’t even have to buy it.
It’s just funny how Mozilla is so desperate for attention they would just say this as a “may” so it is not even a sure thing.
People should just move on of old OSs, just like Android 4 is not supported anymore but most Browsers and 5 is going out of support as well for many.
The difference is unlike phones, people can install newer OSs in a computer so supporting and promoting old OSs like Win7 is just lame… I mean, we can go back to XP and 3.1 and DOS then, where is the support for that??
This is very good news. Windows 7 is the last useable OS by Microsoft. Hopefully by the time Mozilla ends support for Windows 7, Microsoft has already fired all the idiots who helped develop Windows 10 and 11. We need an OS like Windows 7 again.
Yeah, I commented on your previous article regarding the security.nl info, but to be honest nobody (not even mozilla) has made any permanent decisions.
I think you should also mention the option of migrating to win11. I have upgraded many unsupported win7 systems to win10 to get the licence and then clean installed windows 11 with the check bypass methods. It’s actually much faster and better than windows 10. Updates are received normally. And of course you can dual-boot.
Great, Windows 7 is the best Windows.
@userpassadmin
Well I admit that I’m more partial to Windows 8, however, you and I are united in our distaste for both Windows 10 and for Windows 11.
Mind you, if I’m REALLY FAIR, we use Windows 10 21H2 almost exclusively at work, and I have to say, startup, login and extended use don’t seem to bog down Windows 10. True, we’re all on small form factor units with SSDs, but we keep these workstations on for days at a time, just logging in and out. Windows 10 seems to maintain CPU load better, and stay responsive. Before, elongated use of Chrome and Firefox caused memory leaks on Windows 7, and resulted in jam ups, without being able to click on anything or go anywhere. These issues are all gone on Windows 10.
Moreover Windows 10 works more stable with multiple screens on a USB extender, whereas on Windows 7, occasionally screens would blank out then be “redetected” by the USB chain. Then the screens came on again. That was annoying, because it happened otten enough to disturb workflow.
Have stayed with Win7 and will continue to do so. I use FF, Brave, and Pale Moon. When they stop supporting my OS I will continue to use them. I have a new, never used, Win10 laptop. I expect to be forced to get it up and running so I can use internet services that will surely fail me as support falls away. That’s the only reason I bought the durn, ugly thing. It will get minimal use. I have no desire to work online or use any kind of online applications.
Linux, unfortunately, is not an option. All the good software is written for Windows, and I’m a software junkie.
Very sad, to me, the way Windows has gone.
That’s probably what I’m going to do myself as Brave’s updates are mostly security based and don’t add many features that are needed for me. I’m probably going to keep on using it as I have no desire to use nothing else. I don’t care much as my security’s really good and I don’t get hacked or get viruses at all. These companies can kiss my behind.
I have two personal desktop systems still on Windows 8.1 (Pro) with Firefox ESR as my main web browser. My plan is to continue using both for a while after they end support while eventually moving to Linux. Microsoft and their “Windows as a service” is NOT a consideration what-so-ever. Windows 8.1 is the end of the road for me.
@Mothy:
I’m using Windows 8 (with Server 2012 updates to remain current) with Firefox ESR 102. I realize that I would have basically until August (although it sounds as though the longer term plan for Mozilla is to drop ESR support in June, so even then, we will lose three months of updates). I was hoping, as thought by someone else below, that we might get to utilize ESR 115 on Windows 7 and 8x, but I’m not so sure.
If one thinks about it, there would be no reason that by supporting these older Windows versions on ESR 115, that development progress would be held back on the Firefox main release branch. All we need on ESR 115 is security updates.
I haven’t been hearing much on this story for the last few days, and I really was hoping this would be a bigger story. Any progress on Mozilla coming to a final decision?
Windows 7 user here.
About the options and probabilities/10 :
Upgrade to Windows 10 : 0 (Win11? Do negative probabilities make any sens?).
Keep using the unsupported Firefox on the unsupported version of Windows : 5
Switch to a web browser that continues to be supported : 3
Migrate to Linux and run Firefox on Linux : 2
I’m reluctant to consider a new OS, but I’m sure it won’t be Microsoft, hence Linux if applicable.
I’m reluctant to consider a new default browser, so sticking to latest Win7 compatible version of Firefox is most likely.
Nevertheless I may consider another browser supporting Win7, perhaps Brave in such a case. But I doubt any browser will continue to support Win7/8.1 after 2023 anyway.
What is most likely in my case is indeed is to carry on with latest compatible Firefox until I get a new PC which will inevitably run on Linux given Microsoft 10/11/[…] is an option I can and will refuse. I’d surprise myself should i consider switching to more than to a new OS by entering the Mac environment, but who knows for sure?
Brave is ending support too and no more updates will automatically be sent come the start of next year. I just found this out too and have no idea what to do. I’m still on W7 and can’t upgrade because my PC can’t handle 10 or 11 plus I really don’t think Linux will be a decent option for me and my family. All browsers but Palemoon as it’s not Chromium based are going to be affected by this decision as well but Brave will at the minimum will still support Manifest V2 which is being phased out by Google starting next year and won’t be complete until 2024
@Tom Hawack
I use Windows 7 and have been testing various Linux distro’s for the past few years.
My favorites are Manjaro Linux, Linux Mint and MX Linux.
Manjaro is a rolling release that offers the latest kernels pretty quickly, and a GUI to easily install or remove kernels. I use the xfce desktop because it is faster than Gnome and KDE.
But my advice is to follow the posted reviews at https://forum.manjaro.org/c/announcements/11 before installing a new update, wait a day or 2 to see if their are problems and what the solutions are and then install the update.
Linux Mint is based on Ubuntu, but they are working on a version based on Debian to be less dependant on Canonical (developer of Ubuntu) and their bad choices.
Linux Mint is pretty stable and has many programs that make it user friendly.
They are working on a tool to make upgrades to new versions easier.
This is the Linux version (with xfce) that I install on the computers of friends and family, and tell them to use it instead of the privacy abusing Windows.
MX Linux is based on Debian and I actually like it more than Linux Mint.
But I prefer to install Linux Mint on friends/family computers because it has a newer kernel.
There is a MX Linux version (called ahs) with a newer kernel, but it is not as fully supported yet as the default version. I personaly use the ahs version and have had no problems yet with it.
MX Linux has many handy programs that make it user friendly.
I really like MX snapshot that lets you creat a iso from your current MX LInux installation.
You can then install the created iso on a USB stick or USB SSD and so have all your settings and installed programs in a portable form.
I also prefer the Nemo File Manager, over all the others.
Linux still has it’s problems, but I prefer it over the spying Windows 10 and 11.
Linux still has no good stable Firewall to block programs individually.
None of the desktops (xfce, KDE, gnome, etc) have a consistant GUI for all programs, or have window borders that are too thin, or do not have color themes I like.
Besides popular programs like Firefox, LIbreOffice and VLC, it is hard to find programs that you can trust to be around for a long time. Many LInux distro’s switch to some new programs at each upgrade to a new versions.
@Sol Shine, thanks for this most interesting review about entering the Linux environment. It is clear, it is for “Linuxians” most certainly but is it for others? I’ll speak for myself : diversity, conceptually, is IMO the very essence of progress but implies a broad approach hence deeper thinking requirements than those for easy choices based on a simple landscape : Windows or Linux or Mac are basic options so to say but once in Linux choosing the path is far tougher, as tough as it is — for me — to appreciate as it deserves all the nuances of your precise comment regarding “Linux destroys” (is that the correct terminology?). So if Linux it is i’ll have to invest time and deep learning to make the best choices regarding my needs and comments as yours will then be fully beneficial. Until then I’m still “skating in the semolina” as we say in French (“patiner dans la semoule”)!
> But I doubt any browser will continue to support Win7/8.1 after 2023 anyway.
Maybe not the “big” names but i can assure you that Win7 will have plenty of modern browsers to support the system at least till the end of this decade.
Take for example the situation with Windows XP
https://msfn.org/board/topic/182794-updated-browser-list-for-windows-xp/
or Pale moon
https://forum.palemoon.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=21685#p163736
@Paul .T, indeed now that you point it out I can conceive that browsers other than the “big” ones support and will support (“until at least the end of the decade”?!) Win7/Win8.1. I admit that generally speaking I tend to be cautious with “parallel” browsers, be they regularly updated hence “modern”. Moreover, in my case, you have a user who’s been running only Firefox for over a decade (at least), tweaking it substantially, digging into its core, trying to establish the best equalization between the browser’ capacities, possibilities and his wishes, be it in terms of privacy, security and design… and that establishes either a dependency either an optimized relationship or both between the browser and myself. Yet, no option is to be banned on the account of preferences so I do keep in mind your comment. From there on we have to admit that forcing an OS is only postponing an inevitable switch… unless one’s own life ends before that of his digital environment, LOL! But I do intend to survive past the end of this decade, be said!
What if they moved these users to ESR version?
That is one of the ideas. This would guarantee support until August 2023.
No martin, it will happen the same way as in the Win Xp/ Vista case, meaning they will move the users on the 114 ESR and give them another year of security updates i.e. August 2024.
https://blog.mozilla.org/futurereleases/2017/10/04/firefox-support-for-windows-xp-and-vista/
That just spells out how it was. What tells you that Mozilla will do the same once again? That guess work on your part.
– What tells you that Mozilla will do the same once again?
It makes zero sense to move Win7 users (15% of your already small user base) from the stable channel to ESR just for a 6 months.
It’s easy to copy & paste your profile and drop it from regular Firefox into ESR. I did it myself and all the bookmarks, shortcuts, extensions and usernames I had previously, fell into place.
@SeaMoon – I actually agree, but I’m betting for simplicity’s sake that’s what they’ll do. I REALLY hope you’re correct
That just spells out how it was. What tells you that Mozilla will do the same once again? That guess work on your part.
W7 here.
Thanks for relevant post!
Will keep riding till web works.