Microsoft’s explanation for pushing Windows 10 upgrades raises questions

If you follow tech news sites you may have read pieces already on how Microsoft's Chief Marketing Officer, Chris Capossela explained on the Windows Weekly 497 videocast that the company is aware of that it went too far with pushing Windows 10 upgrades to customer systems.

The press, for the most part at least, saw Capossela's comments on the issue in positive light. You can check out the Softpedia article for instance to get a feel for the vibe Capossela's commenting on pushing Windows 10 upgrades caused.

Lets take a look first at what Capossela said (this begins at around 17:40):

And then the last one for me, purely from a marketing or branding perspective [..] was getting to aggressive in pushing out the free Windows 10 upgrade.

We know we want people to be running Windows 10 from a security perspective, but finding the right balance where you’re not stepping over the line of being too aggressive is something we tried and for a lot of the year I think we got it right, but there was one particular moment in particular where, you know, the red-X in the dialog box which typically means you cancel didn’t mean cancel.

And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world, with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far and then, of course, it takes some time to roll out the update that changes that behavior. And those two weeks were pretty painful and clearly a low-light for us. We learned a lot from it obviously.

This explanation raises more questions than it gives answers. Yes, it is sort-of an apology if you look at it.

get windows 10 schedule

The question that Paul, Mary Jo or Leo Laporte should have asked right after Capossela finishing the last sentence is how on earth anyone at Microsoft could think it would be a good idea to change the functionality of the red-X function in the upgrade window.

Extreme Tech's Joel Hruska puts it quite well in stating that Microsoft at the time either thought that changing core Windows functionality would not go too far in pushing the Windows 10 upgrade, or that the company has a serious issue when it comes to -- internal -- criticism of issues (read complains were ignored by executives).

Anyone, with some experience on Windows, and I think Microsoft employees and executives working on Windows have that, should have realized immediately that changing the close functionality of the Get Windows 10 upgrade window to "ok" would be disingenuous and borderline malicious.

Microsoft only had to look at the company's own Windows Dev Center guide on dialog boxes to know that this is wrong:

The Close button on the title bar should have the same effect as the Cancel or Close button within the dialog box. Never give it the same effect as OK.

And that is not even taking into account the previous iterations of the Get Windows 10 Upgrade experience which Microsoft made harder and harder to refuse and ignore.

The second question that should have been asked is why it took Microsoft weeks to undo this particular update. Why did not Microsoft roll back the previous version of the Get Windows 10 upgrade tool instead? This could probably have been done in less than a day after noticing that user complaints skyrocketed.

It would also have been interesting to get Microsoft's reaction on the fallout on "pushing windows 10 too aggressive". Yes, the company got users to upgrade to Windows 10 in large numbers. Some did so willingly, others because they could not stop the upgrade from taking place.

But there is also a part of the company's customer base that Microsoft scared of with its tactics. Long-time Microsoft customers who don't want anything to do with Windows 10 because of how aggressive Microsoft was in pushing Windows 10 to customer devices. The whole privacy and update situation on Windows 10 adds to that.

Some of these customers will probably never upgrade to Windows 10 which means that Microsoft's campaign did lose the company customers as well.

Woody over on Ask Woody thinks this is a major factor that is affecting Windows 10 adaption:

The “Get Windows 10” campaign has done more to destroy Microsoft’s reputation than anything I’ve encountered – and I’ve been writing books about Microsoft products for almost 25 years. The current slump in Win10 adoption, in my opinion, can be traced directly to Microsoft’s heavy-handed jackboot GWX approach.

Closing Words

It is clear to everyone that Microsoft went too far with the Get Windows 10 upgrade campaign. I called Microsoft out for using malware-like tactics to spread Windows 10, and I was not the only one who did that.

Why did Microsoft do it this way? The question is, would not have the free offer been enough to get users to upgrade to Windows 10? Usage numbers would not be as high after the one-year free upgrade period of course, but playing it nice would have avoided burning bridges to existing customers who felt that Microsoft was getting too aggressive in its attempt to get them to upgrade to the new operating system.

Reception would probably have also been better from a marketing perspective, considering that tech sites would not have written piece after piece complaining about Microsoft's upgrade strategy.

Anyway, what is done is done. I'm not sure if Microsoft learned a thing from the whole debacle. Probably not.

Now You: What's your take on this?

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Microsoft's explanation for pushing Windows 10 upgrades raises questions
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Microsoft's Chief Marketing Officer, Chris Capossela's explanation for getting too aggressive in pushing Get Windows 10 campaign raises questions.
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Responses to Microsoft’s explanation for pushing Windows 10 upgrades raises questions

  1. marguerite wilde December 25, 2016 at 8:54 am #

    I chose windows 10, seems mad to me to not upgrade your computer , and to be offered the upgrade for free , was an opportunity that I would not miss ,I found the experience excellent , and have no bad things to say about it all , Windows 10 is excellent , so easy to use and my computer is running fine ,

    • Straspey December 25, 2016 at 2:14 pm #

      "I chose windows 10..."

      Exactly - you CHOSE to upgrade your system to Windows 10.

      However - in this case - had you CHOSEN not to upgrade your system to Windows 10, your CHOICE would have been rendered irrelevant because - by surreptitiously changing the function of the red "x" in the upper-right corner of the pop-up - Microsoft was making the CHOICE for you - regardless of your own personal CHOICE.

      That's the whole point of Martin's article - and why many thousands of users had to jump through hoops numerous times during the so-called "Free Upgrade" year in order to prevent Microsoft from making a CHOICE for them regarding how they wanted to CHOOSE to configure their own personal systems.

      • Unbelievable December 25, 2016 at 5:52 pm #

        Excactly !!!

      • Decent60 December 25, 2016 at 5:55 pm #

        There are also many thousands of people stating that they weren't given an option to upgrade, it just did it for them (my dummy laptop was a victim of this) upon restarting of the computer. The fact that most people's computers were downloading the upgrade file silently in the background (without anyone's permission; think of people with metered connections with 3+ computers) and all it took was something to mess up during startup to signal an "Okay" to upgrade without any user interaction period. The aggression was too strong and the gain was not for the end-user.

    • Tom Hawack December 25, 2016 at 3:15 pm #

      @marguerite, what a lovely name and how odd such a lovely name, on such a lovely Christmas day... seems to be searching for trouble. Because you *are* searching for trouble, aren't you? :)

      As guest Straspey pointed out, it was your choice when the problematic is indeed a choice be respected, whatever it be. And those who chose to *not* upgrade to Win10 have been facing problems we know, we all know, problems even acknowledged by Microsoft itself.

      Your comment reminds me the extra short scenario, "- You like the Beatles? - I do - But why? ... (high eyelashes)" Some people seem to believe that because they regard other choices than theirs as unfounded whatever problematic related to those other choices is nonsense. Please do accept the idea life is plural!

      Concerning Microsoft's Chief Marketing Officer "explanation", as I see it it's no more than a marketing attitude brought to the attention of the company because of two combined issues : 1- Windows 10 is not making its way as expected, 2- There is a rising planetary revolt towards an OS which has been forced and which moreover remains highly problematic nearly 18 months after its official launch. In other words the company raped and practiced this disgraceful act (you get the idea) with a total lack of talent.

      They can explain as much as they want, recognize a mistake, I will not accept the sincerity of a company when we all know companies admit but the flagrant. The truth is that nowadays perhaps more than ever commercial companies consider the user as resumed to his wallet, only. Business is ferocious, you have to prospect 5, 10, 20 years ahead to establish a policy. But you shouldn't trespass border-lines, and Microsoft did. The problem, as mentioned in the article, is why and how. Who decided, who approved, who wasn't heard, who didn't dare criticize?

      Apart from the ethical aspect Microsoft has committed a tremendous commercial mistake. I am stunned no one has yet been fired. Maybe is the responsibility too highly graded? No idea of course.

    • Tony December 26, 2016 at 10:43 am #

      I stopped reading "Marguerite's" comment at "seems mad to me". Nothing after such a preface can be meaningful.

    • bwsHomeU December 29, 2016 at 1:21 am #

      "I chose windows 10, seems mad to me to not upgrade your computer"

      Are you kidding? Given all the nonsense over this for the past year, I don't need this hassle. It think it's mad TO UPGRADE.

      "and to be offered the upgrade for free"

      Is everything that's 'free', good? Seems there's a price to be paid for having 'free' here. That also includes anything 'free' google is pushing as well.

      Which also means if you're running Chrome under Windows 10 and expect some kind of privacy, then you are sadly deluding yourselves. That's not going to happen.

  2. Annonymous December 25, 2016 at 9:20 am #

    Microsoft malicious behaviour can be compare to a pervert Indian Taxi Driver that does not understand what the word NO means. That is really EVIL what they did changing the X with OK without people consents because Microsoft did not buy the Computers that the people from other countries uses. What is yours is Mine, that is how Microsoft behave themselves, they think that they can get away with their "Perversion" just because they have Billions of Dollars. Microsoft CEO and Management needs to be Punished for behaving like "pervert" Dictators, if you do not want to F**K with Microsoft they will find a way to F**K with you by force without your own consents. Microsoft needs to learn some respect by going to Rehab or the Computer Hackers from other countries will force Microsoft to show some Respect the Hard Way. Microsoft will be sorry if their Computer Servers ends up looking like a wasted Hooker from Las Vegas.

    • SysAdmin776 December 25, 2016 at 4:33 pm #

      There seems to be a lot of racist comments about Indians at the moment. I wonder if this is a PR tactic to associate negative comments about Microsoft with racism?

      Seems doomed to failure as most of the people who are negative towards Microsoft are also negative towards racism.

      • Shubidu4you December 25, 2016 at 7:46 pm #

        Nonsense stays nonsense. You can put your hypocritical political correctness where the sun does not shine. Look up racism, look back in history. Then you may find out what real racism means. Puddinghead. By the way, merry Christmas to you, too.

      • A or B, not C. December 26, 2016 at 5:06 am #

        @ SysA ....... Telling the truth about certain races or groups is not racist. Hiding or ignoring these racial truths is worse = equals truth-deniers or liars, eg liberal political-correctness.
        ....... Is it racist to say, "Not all Muslims r terrorists but nearly all terrorists r Muslims" or "It is against diversity for the Blacks to dominate American sports".?
        .
        It is a fact n truth that M$ got worse after Satya Nadella, out-sourcing to India n Indian H-1B workers took over, ie more abusive business practices by M$.

      • SysAdmin776 December 26, 2016 at 6:08 am #

        @A or B, not C..... "Telling the truth about certain races or groups is not racist" -- This is a really good definition of racism.

        "Racial truths" is the exact language used by the Nazis in order to justify exterminating people.

        It is racist to say that "Muslims are terrorists" because it is a broad, generalized statement which lumps all Muslims unfairly in the category of terrorists and is based on prejudice and hatred.

        I've known a lot of Indian people, all of whom were really decent people. I've known a lot of people from the Middle East, without exception, all were really decent people, a privilege to know. Generalizing and insulting a race of people is completely inappropriate and its really unfair.

        Things did get worse after Nadella took over Microsoft, absolutely. To say it is because he is of Indian extraction is nonsense. I have a really low opinion of Nadella, because of him and not for any other reason. I think he is arrogant and abnoxious and that's why he's done what he's done and he doesn't give a damn about anyone.

      • SysAdmin776 December 26, 2016 at 10:20 am #

        @ Shubidu4you...You are obviously not a mental giant. Stop labeling people, never been politically correct in my life.

        "hypocritical" - these racist comments are simply pathetic but most people ignore them because they are simply too tacky to respond to.

        "what real racism means" - racism is pervasive and includes pathetic racist comments.

        "look back in history" - you don't have to look back in history, racism is going on everywhere, all of the time. Look around you and ask a few people who are on the receiving end of it.

        Ask an Indian if the above comments are racist and the answer will be "YES".

      • Wotan December 26, 2016 at 5:50 pm #

        @sysadmin776

        read your stuff, the comments and your replies. I can only say your critics are right about your pompous flubdub.

      • Tom Hawack December 26, 2016 at 6:23 pm #

        @SysAdmin776, quoting your "mental giant" for its humorous potential. Yet, funny or not, it doesn't provide a reasonable mood, a rational ground for a civilized dialog. Others could -- if they followed your behavior -- consider a complex of inferiority, yours, expressed by a nice name ("System Administrator", wow!) and by a people's quality administrator as well by means of reference to their mental aptitude. But they won't :)

        Relax, Max. Just be cool. No one's gonna bite you, we're all fine puppies, don't worry!

  3. John C. December 25, 2016 at 9:54 am #

    Mandatory updates, telemetry and other spying.... NO THANKS!! I'll never, EVER use Windows 10. I don't even like using Windows 7 now that MS has snuck in telemetry updates to that version of Windows as well.

    • Stephen Crisdale December 26, 2016 at 2:44 am #

      "Mandatory"?

      Hmmm. Seems to me some people don't know where to turn off the functions that they reckon are 'mandatory'... They also don't seem to comprehend that if the functions they whinge about actually have options to 'disable' available for them to choose either at install or later (if they bother to take a minute or two too find out how to disable the functions they come on here and whine about), the functions are not "mandatory", but "optional".

      Sure; MS has the 'default' setting of these "less than desirable for some users who are paranoid about almost everything" settings set to "ON", but that doesn't detract from the fact that for less paranoid and capable Windows users, the settings are easily disabled via the options (sure they aren't "neon light" style buttons screaming at you that you can "change settings here if your paranoid"!) the OS provides.

      • SysAdmin776 December 26, 2016 at 10:07 am #

        According to Microsoft management, the telemetry can't be turned off. This makes it clearly 'mandatory'.

        Changing settings may make you feel better but it wont affect the 'telemetry' that Microsoft wants to collect. If that wasn't the case, it would be quite easy for Microsoft to include an option to 'Disable ALL telemetry' which absolutely doesn't exist.

        Microsoft also has a track record of sharing data with the NSA - Microsoft was the first to volunteer its services for the data collection program called 'prism'. Microsoft's slogan at the time was 'Your privacy is our priority'. Do a web search and you will find this information.

        Under the Patriot's Act, the NSA has the right to bulk data collection without ANY legal process and can access this information directly from the tech companies at any time it wants to.

        People are a lot more informed about the reality of data collection by Windows 10 and where that data will end up.

      • John C. December 26, 2016 at 12:59 pm #

        There should be a law for the use of "whine", "whinge", "tin hat", "paranoia" or "paranoid" similar to Godwin's law for use of the word "Nazi". All you're accomplishing by using any of them is to make yourself look like a shill for M$.

        Otherwise, I realized my wording was wrong shortly after I posted my opinion. Should have read:

        "Telemetry and other spying as well as mandatory updates.... NO THANKS!!

        Out of the box, OS updates to Windows 10 are mandatory. Period. Yes, there are programs out there which stop such updates, but unless you're using the Enterprise version, you must use third party software to turn off updating.

        As for the telemetry and other spying, MS has certain IP callouts hard coded into W10. You can't block them even with a firewall AFAIK. The privacy settings you're referring to are buried in the OS somewhere, but even if you can find them, they're far from complete.

        I've been using Windows since ver. 3. Have only dabbled on a friend's computer with W10, detested it immediately. I stand by my statement that I'd rather eat dirt than use W10, wouldn't touch it with a barge pole on any of my computers.

        IMO, anybody who bought into the W10 spyware and actually "upgraded" to it is a fool, it's as simple as that.

      • Corky December 26, 2016 at 1:33 pm #

        @Stephen Crisdale, You may call it paranoia but unless you have evidence of what Microsoft does with the data they gather on their customers I'd say peoples concerns are anything but unjustified suspicion and mistrust.

        While you may have absolute trust in a multinational corporation many people don't and I'd say that suspicion and mistrust is wholly justified, if anything I'd say you're either naive of very gullible as there's plenty of evidence to show you're trust in Microsoft is unjustified.

      • A or B, not C. December 26, 2016 at 1:39 pm #

        @ Stephen C ....... Fyi, since the 02 Aug 2016 Anniversary Update, Win 10 Pro & Ent could no longer use Group Policy to disable Automatic Update = mandatory updates. ...

        http(semicolon)//www(dot)rizonesoft(dot)com/disable-windows-10-updates-anniversary-update/

    • DVDRambo December 26, 2016 at 9:30 pm #

      Since Microsoft announced Windows as a service in January 2015, many expected Windows to become a subscription service. It has, just not all at once. for every user. If you want full control of your own computer, Microsoft now offers Windows Enterprise E3, for only $7 per user, per month. I fully expect a Home E3 combined Windows/Office subscription to be available soon. There is a reason the stock has doubled in the past two years. Microsoft has announced it's goals and investors paid attention. which consumers remain mostly unaware. I encourage all to test a live Linux distro. Linux Mint 18 works well for me. Free without telemetry.

      • Stephen Crisdale December 27, 2016 at 12:50 am #

        To Corky et al... Why is it essential to ascribe someone - in this case me; with some invented attitude of 'fanboyism' simply because I expressed an opinion about my fellow computer users (based upon decades of 'teaching' them), that gets misread and misrepresented as my 'backing' Microsoft. The reality - as non-Politically Correct as it is, is that the vast majority of computer users - indeed the vast majority of the human race is filled to the brim with individuals whose competence is pretty poor at best. The fact that these individuals post on forums like this, as well as work for companies like MS or even the Federal Governments of nations around the world should come as no shock, because humans are fallible creatures.
        It's merely a shame that such fallibility is often manifested through poor comprehension skills and the projection of various negative values of oneself onto others.
        Yes; computers are tools - but it's patently apparent they aren't anywhere near the level of tool as the one's moving the mouse about or hitting the keys on the keyboard... and I include myself amongst them!! I wonder how many of the responders to this article are as equally capable of having a good laugh at themselves? Now that I've mentioned it; they all no doubt will reckon they can... BTW; do the responders realise they've breached their privacy by providing their actual e-mail address in order to post here? Worried about privacy are we? WHOOPS!!!!!

      • Corky December 27, 2016 at 9:39 am #

        @Stephen Crisdale, I didn't say you were a fanboy, i said you were either naive of very gullible for believing a large multinational company has its customer best interests at heart, that you saying peoples suspicion and mistrust is unjustified is wrong when you have little or no evidence, that quiet the contrary there's plenty of evidence to show peoples suspicion and mistrust of Microsoft is wholly justified.

        I'm simply stating this often used nomenclature of paranoid to describe peoples suspicion and mistrust is being used incorrectly as peoples concerns are anything but unjustified.

      • bwsHomeU December 29, 2016 at 1:35 am #

        @John C. +1

        @Stephen Crisdale - You can ridiculously philosophize about the human race all you want to, but those settings can be changed back by M$ whenever the next update comes out. They mean absolutely nothing when telemetry is hard coded into the machine and they give the end user a false sense of privacy where privacy isn't due. Belittling everybody here who doesn't follow the M$ company line is not going to win anybody over.

  4. Earl December 25, 2016 at 11:30 am #

    Well, Microsoft's behavior related forcing "upgrades" to Win10 is what convinced me to leave Windows behind almost entirely (I still use my old Win7 box sporadically). They definitely burned that bridge for me.

  5. Corky December 25, 2016 at 11:59 am #

    The most interesting thing is not what Capossela's said IMO but what Paul, Mary Jo and Leo Laporte didn't say.

    • bwsHomeU December 29, 2016 at 1:37 am #

      They don't want to come down on Capossela too much. Otherwise they won't have access in the future.

      Can't bite the hand that feeds you. Directly or indirectly.

  6. Nathan December 25, 2016 at 12:17 pm #

    Martin, I don't know why you keep on writing about Microsoft as if you expect them to change. They won't. Not without a massive loss, at least.

    Isn't it better to educate people about how to use Linux and to find alternatives to the software they use, or how to use VirtualBox to have access to their software only when they need to? Oh well, I made the transition to Linux and all is fine. I hope you will take into consideration writing articles about Linux in the future.

    You tried. There is no other way.

    • Declan December 27, 2016 at 6:21 pm #

      Nathan, The reason Martin, and many others, are continuing to discuss Microsoft is because people care about their computers. And those who use Windows care about that happens on their machines. What Microsoft has done has damaged it's reputation irreversibly. Trust is now gone. It doesn't matter who is giving us information whether it's Martin, or any one else, it's important for users to stay informed because there are so many issues that are involved.

      And if you hadn't noticed, Martin's focus is on Windows, not Linux, iOS, or Android. I for one am starting to teach myself about Linux, but as a hobby, not for a switch. Maybe one day I will switch, maybe I won't. But I want to be prepared just in case. That doesn't mean I want Martin and others to devote more of their time to discussing Linux, there are plenty of other blogs for that. And as I plod my way through learning Linux, I go to those sites just as I come here for Windows.

      The long winded answer to your question is similar to the answer a reporter ascribed to Willie Sutton regarding his bank robberies in the early 1950's ... "Why do I rob banks? Because that's where the money is". So ...why do I read gHacks? Because that's where good information about Windows is. I can get good information about Linux elsewhere.

  7. Luigi Delsotto December 25, 2016 at 12:22 pm #

    Well !!!!. I gave in to Microsoft's persistent nagging/trickery and upgraded one of my PC's to Windows 10 and promptly lost the main part of the functionality of my ASUS TaiChi notebook in the process. No option but to try and revert to Windows 8.1 to try to regain control.
    This was not an obsolete piece of hardware but a 2 year old ultrabook which did not have driver support from Microsoft despite Microsofts PROMISES. They will blame the vendor but I know where the pressure was coming from, to adopt yet another piece of unfinished dysfunctional software.
    I object VERY STRONGLY to the methods that Microsoft adopted to achieve their aim of World dominance. A great deal of damage has been done to the brand, and I for one will never trust them again. With anything.
    Main lessons that should be learnt is to research your market and work very closely with your vendors. Stop treating your customers like mugs. I won't hold my breath in expectation that this lesson will be learnt any time soon.

  8. Jeff December 25, 2016 at 12:43 pm #

    Windows 8.1 is what I use. It has many advantages of 7 for me. Windows 10 is so obnoxious I think I am going to stay with 8.1 for the next 20-25 years. Maybe by then Microsoft's culture would have turned over a new leaf.

    • hirobo2 December 26, 2016 at 6:04 am #

      Sounds just like me except my next 20-25 years will be spent dual booting 7 AND XP... XP for pure raw computing speeds, Win7 for wider new hardware support.

  9. anon December 25, 2016 at 1:35 pm #

    All this shouldn't have come as surprise to anyway: Microsoft was never nice and consumer friendly. It has always been a greedy monopoly.

  10. Henk van Setten December 25, 2016 at 1:37 pm #

    Quote: "Some of these customers will probably never upgrade to Windows 10."

    Yes. That certainly includes me. Like Jeff above, I will stay with 8.1 (used side-by-side with Linux Mint).

    Quote: "I'm not sure if Microsoft learned a thing from the whole debacle. Probably not."

    This phrasing still gives Microsoft too much credit. I would have said "of course not."

  11. Andy December 25, 2016 at 2:24 pm #

    I have to defend Leo Laporte concerning your comment about him. He was very angry when he started getting phone calls about people being "upgraded" to Win10 when they had specifically clicked "no". He has specifically recommended people away from Windows (to Chromebooks and Linux) because he is not happy with MS. He may not have known about MS changing the behavior of the red X. MS doing that is close to criminal behavior, in my opinion.

  12. jern December 25, 2016 at 2:39 pm #

    The last I heard, Intel's and AMD's new processors will only support Win10. I hear an "apology" but don't see any change. The fix is in. MS's apology rings hollow.

    • Brent R Jones December 28, 2016 at 5:41 pm #

      Are Intel and AMD and Microsoft in bed together? Is Apple having an affair on the side with Intel? Yes, the fix is in. But the fix on use of gasoline in cars is also "in". We could be using natural gas in steel bottles to power our cars. It is widely being done in Pakistan. Cost of conversion is about $50. You can shift from gas to gasoline by a switch on the dashboard.

  13. Alfred December 25, 2016 at 3:06 pm #

    There is a clear reason why they didn't roll back immediately.

    They wanted to see how well it worked.

    Don't kid yourselves, there is a different conversation going on in Microsoft internally than externally. (also applies to any other business and governmental operation.)

    MS: Make the cancel button install/They won't like it/ it doesn't matter, who gives a shit if it works...screw em....we can always make up some spin BS later./OK, if you say so...

    Can't you see this going on in everything? You can't tell? Here's how: The actions are the truth, the words (spin BS) is the lie for public consumption...,

  14. LD December 25, 2016 at 4:04 pm #

    Windows 10 itself may be or end up being an excellent OS, however that is not what this discussion is all about. This discussion is about marketing and the tactics a company uses to influence a person or a business to buy into their spiel. Marketing's responsibility is to protect the brand, keep existing customers and to attract new ones. The company executives are measured on how they grow the company so marketing is pivotal. They have to get it right.

    The GWX campaign was a marketing strategy primarily tasked with taking control of the upgrade to W10. MS executives saw Vista and W8 as a template for failure (marketing that is) and XP as the poster child for loosing control of both product and customer. GWX has been seen as a success, re: 'a good balance was achieved'. by the top executives at Microsoft, The pitchman did his job, re: '400 million and counting'. The mea culpa expressed by the top guy in Marketing, re: 'a two week period of pain (for Microsoft) and we learned from it' can also be seen as after marketing. To err is human is the message.

    Manipulation, aggression, subterfuge - whatever the tool, it is all part of the marketing machine and Microsoft will be ramping up and relying more heavily on marketing to sell their WaaS vision. Fasten your seat belt as MS has indeed learned a lot from the GWX campaign, but not the one their users believe they should have learned.

    • Lurking About December 25, 2016 at 4:47 pm #

      One major problem with W10 free upgrade fiasco is it did not take into account that users could all jump to W10 for any of a number of excellent reasons. The specific reasons in each case are not important but what is important is that many users are a couple of years away from upgrading. Experience with Windows upgrades means that some software and hardware will not work. Thus, there are costs beyond the installation of W10 that are likely to occur.

      Another problem is many objected to the lose of control of their equipment with MS' insistence on always on telemetry. Ignoring user privacy for an enhanced ad campaign is sleazy at best and potentially risks compromising a user's legal obligations under various privacy laws. I work in one of these industries and shudder at the idea some of this data will probably leak to MS and thence to another.

  15. earthling December 25, 2016 at 4:49 pm #

    We have to assume that if you refused to upgrade to our latest and improved spyware, even though we made it FREE you have to be a terrorist and we have to force feed it down your throat Guantanamo-style. If you haven't upgraded to SpywareX please to do so asap - thanks and best regards, your NSA!

  16. 420 December 25, 2016 at 4:51 pm #

    Well I have learned my lesson, fool me once etc... Screw m$, and I feel sorry for anyone who is so ensconced in their bullshit that they feel like they are forced to use windows because there is no alternative. I could go on and on about what a shitty lowlife scumbag company m$ is but why bother. Those that are stuck using their crap will defend their plight, those that hate m$ are already not using their crap.

  17. P December 25, 2016 at 5:26 pm #

    There's no mystery behind M$ behavior. If only a fraction of users want the upgrade, you must force it upon them. End users are too ignorant to know what they want or need in an OS.

    • Corky December 26, 2016 at 7:08 am #

      That maybe true of some end users but not all and defiantly not the majority, to say end users are too ignorant to know what they want or need in an OS is a very Apple'esc attitude, although seeing how Microsoft have been aping Apple so much recently i guess it's to be expected, if people want Apple'esc attitudes why not but a Mac?

  18. Ron December 25, 2016 at 5:33 pm #

    I want to thank Microsoft. Because of this, I have been a happy user of Linux Mint for almost a year now.

  19. Unbelievable December 25, 2016 at 5:50 pm #

    Simply unbelievable and nothing else than a planned PR action. They fooled and tricked so many users into Win10, they screwed up so many machines, they ruined highly valuable work and users have lost invaluable memories because of MS deceiptive and rowdyish updating and all MS has to offer is a wishy-washy BS apology after the fact. Imho MS is practicing dishonest business and they have no doubt about it to continue that way. Apologies will be made to fool you and me, it's only words and they are cheap. Look at the facts, look at MS actions. The rest is for the birds.

  20. Gonzo December 25, 2016 at 7:11 pm #

    MS has two clear philosphies regarding Windows 10.

    1 - It's better to ask for forgiveness than ask for permission
    2 - All non-enterprise users are beta testers
    3 - Resistance is futile

    Your options:

    1 - Accept MS philosophies
    2 - Put Windows in a VM and never connect it to the internet.
    3 - Leave Windows ecosystem

    Using some sort of snake oil like ShutUp10 is not option 4. It just makes you a fool. There is no way to completely stop the tracking et al. from within the OS. Anyone telling you different is uninformed, misguided or worse.

    • Tom Hawack December 25, 2016 at 7:52 pm #

      Good analysis. The facts, the options. From there on the user's choice which, guided, would suggest cyber-proselytism. It's up to each of us to decide. I'll remain with Windows 7 until I switch to a Linux system. My long companionship will have ended with Windows, 7th of the name. There will be a Christmas where I'll sing to the attention of Microsoft,

      "Last Christmas, I gave you my heart
      But the very next day, you gave it away
      This year, to save me from tears
      I'll give it to someone special"

      Not really my heart, not really the next day, but I don't have the talent to rewrite the lyrics :)

      • Gonzo December 26, 2016 at 5:54 am #

        What's stopping you from moving to Linux right now? If you really do plan on moving to Linux, why play whack-a-mole with MS for the next 3 years?

        Linux will still have the same issues in 3 years that it has today. It will still be missing Adobe, Intuit and like publishers. Graphics will still be less than awesome. However, MS could get more aggressive with Windows 7 updates, shoehorning telemetry in one way or another, if they haven't already. I don't see any positives in waiting, only negatives.

        Either way, good luck!

      • Tom Hawack December 26, 2016 at 10:11 am #

        @Gonzo, what's stopping me from moving to Linux right now? Lack of ambition, lack of demagogy as well, pragmatism when I consider the effectiveness of an OS before its builder, when my Win7 has been heavily tweaked, optimized, protected and set to no longer accept Windows Updates (totally blocked).

        The OS here works fine, I won't switch to another on the ground it is MS-built. I'll carry on with the same state of mind I've always had : if it works as you like it, if there's nothing you miss because of a computer's and/or its OS' old age, then continue using the tool to serve other ambitions then technological. Tools they are, not the expression of revolt nor propaganda. This is what I was referring to when above I mentioned "cyber-proselytism".

        When the day comes I'll obviously have to consider switching, triggered by the computer or the OS. Then, then only shall I place my veto on Windows 10 and most likely start with Linux. I'm not in a hurry when the engine runs fine.

    • K_K December 26, 2016 at 4:39 pm #

      " There is no way to completely stop the tracking et al. from within the OS. Anyone telling you different is uninformed, misguided or worse."

      Definitive citations? I'd like some links to read up on this.

      I've read a bit on this topic but would like some really up to date info.

    • bwsHomeU December 29, 2016 at 1:54 am #

      @Gonzo say: "There is no way to completely stop the tracking et al. from within the OS. Anyone telling you different is uninformed, misguided or worse."

      There's been telemetry by M$ (that I've been aware of) going back to XP days and maybe before, so this is nothing new. It's the DEGREE of telemetry that they're using now that people are objecting to.

      This isn't a zero-sum game. Nobody is expecting to completely stop the telemetry, but I am willing to cut down on it using whatever tools out there that will do it.

      In the meantime I feel the same way as @Tom Hawack does. I update Win7 and 8.1 manually now, with mostly security updates. Rollups and so-called 'improvements' bullshit get left behind.

  21. PJ December 25, 2016 at 8:11 pm #

    EVERY member of my wife's book club (about a dozen people) felt bullied or coerced into upgrading to WIndows 10. All did so. ALL HAD PROBLEMS that they had to PAY someone to resolve them.

    Heavy-handed doesn't begin to describe Microsoft's conduct. How about totally unethical?

    I have no intention of ever using a Microsoft OS again. I switched to Linux Mint. Couldn't be happier. It isn't just free. It's better. I feel sorry for the people who think "oh it's from Microsoft and it's free, I'd better do it". They aren't the market's decision leaders, that's for sure. They're the people who carried on with Nokia after it was clear the smartphone was the future.

  22. Jozsef December 25, 2016 at 10:15 pm #

    It was obviously just spin since he mentioned two weeks being the duration of their unfortunate lapse in judgement, as he would like us to view it. Between the insult of GWX, the telemetry that defies attempts to stop it and the idiocy of forcing updates in the form of large rollups that may contain a component that wrecks one's system, it's over for me. This is how the glowing promise of Longhorn crashes and burns, in a crucible of megalomaniacal cynicism and incompetence.

    I have Linux distros on a couple of systems that I'm testing them on and it's a wonderful new world of freedom and sanity.

  23. jasray December 25, 2016 at 11:38 pm #

    Glad some users mention Linux--you have your own problems that are probably unknown to you; Mint refuses to upgrade to the latest, most secure kernel . . . and, it's easier to exploit Linux than it is Windows!

    http://betanews.com/2016/12/16/ubuntu-fedora-linux-exploit/

    Back to Windows 10--any comment complaining about some forced upgrade to Windows 10 reveals a super naive commenter. Microsoft was quite clear that one could return to a previous version within 30 days; programmers and tech sites were on top of the situation the entire time offering ways to stop the upgrade if so desired; some creative folks gave us the "more more-than-simple-to-understand" workaround to image a current version, upgrade to Windows 10 for the license which would be embedded in the BIOS, and then restoring the system image.

    Martin played a large part in keeping readers aware of options, solutions, and workarounds that he either discovered on his own or was discovering [while others were simply complaining].

    In short, if anyone is running Windows 10 as of now and blames Microsoft for "making" them run Windows 10, then he/she is avoiding the responsibility of informed consumer shopping.

    All the whining needs to stop; go purchase a serial for Windows 7 or whatever--get a Mac; personally, I owe a big thanks and am grateful for those computer specialists who were listening, reading, and providing advice for those of us who can't keep up with everything on tech sites. I can't ever pay them enough money or praise or show them enough respect.

    It's the first thing we learn in sales: Looking out for #1, and, unfortunately, the customer isn't #1. For those who think, or ever thought, that Microsoft or any company has his/her best interests at heart, "I hate to break it to you baby," but you aren't the king of anything in the consumer world--just a pawn for sacrifice.

    Oh, that Chess Program is a real challenge--thanks Martin.

    Merry Holidays!

    • T J December 26, 2016 at 10:21 am #

      @ jasray

      "image a current version (of Win 7), upgrade to Windows 10 for the license which would be embedded in the BIOS, and then restoring the system image."

      I did exactly that but, before restoring the Win 7 image, I wrote down the Win 10 info:
      Prod ID: 00330-80000-00000-AA040
      Prod Key: TY4CG-JDJH7-VJ2WF-DY4X9-HCFC6

      To image (clone) the Win 7 OS, I used Macrium Reflect and an external HDD. It worked a treat. :)

      You are correct. Martin did give us all the information to do this. Thanks Martin ! :)

    • Corky December 26, 2016 at 1:42 pm #

      @jasray, So are you saying that two problems with Linux is comparably to Windows?

      Because if you are i have some swampland in Florida that's ripe for development you may want to buy. ;)

    • Lurking About December 26, 2016 at 5:32 pm #

      The complaint about forced updates is about the tactics and borderline criminal behavior to trick the unwary into upgrading. It is not about the merits or demerits of W10. Tii many reports of people finding W10 on their computers and they are not sure how it happened. The technically savvy, with effort, restore the previous version even if it means a reinstallation. But what about the average user? They were lied to and tricked into installing W10 by MS.

      • Corky December 27, 2016 at 11:57 am #

        @Lurking About, not to mention that the very next update could wipe out all those settings the technically savvy has changed leading to a never ending game of whack-a-mole.

  24. alfie December 26, 2016 at 3:49 am #

    really is no point blaming microsux for this dogturd of an OS, everyone knows the NSA owns microsux these days, why else is so much personally identifiable info being collected, (far more than is necessary!), just blame america, everyone else does ! and rightly so,along with google,amazon and facebook etc..thats the trouble with dictatorships, they never know when enough is enough until overthrown or their secrets are revealed (thankyou assange and snowden, among others!) even then they rewrite the rulebook to suit their own ends (ala dictatorships) and claim its due to terrorism,,,but whos the real terrorist when all is said and done?

    • Mola Ram, CEO Microsoft December 27, 2016 at 1:25 am #

      I think you may be right about that. The elephant in the room that Microsoft, Apple, Google, AT&T, and numerous other US tech monopolies refuse to talk about is their continuing spying operations. I call them monopolies because they're basically one entity, protected by the government, and in part funded by the government (where do you think Google got all those billions in funding from and how it was able to build up its infrastructure so quickly?).

  25. Owl December 26, 2016 at 4:19 am #

    Unbelievable that a company could care so less about negative publicity this last year. Executives in Ivory Towers? Even so, I think they have woken up to the fact this may have backfired on them...

  26. Petaflox December 26, 2016 at 4:36 am #

    All this is pointless, the list of lawsuit against Microsoft over Windows 10 upgrade is very long ( you can check it whit google).
    The real point is that user don't like Windows 10, the sooner Microsoft realize it and correct it the more money they will
    save!

  27. Simon T. December 26, 2016 at 8:08 am #

    The forced Windows 10 upgrade nightmare was the most horrendous time as an IT pro I've ever experienced, the relentless bullshit marketing and unwanted 'upgrades' caused confusion and distrust, many smaller businesses who cannot afford managed IT support services to be unable to use their PCs, many experienced substantial customer loss, some have closed because were unable to operate. The default fully-fucked privacy settings show the disgusting contempt Microsoft has for customers. Microsoft is nothing but a dirty corporate purveyor of beta-quality privacy-invading spyware and malware. For all our sake's - Please - Never use Windows, Office, Visual Studio, or any Microsoft crap ever again.

  28. Hy December 26, 2016 at 10:27 am #

    "Microsoft's Chief Marketing Officer, Chris Capossela: “...the red-X in the dialog box which typically means you cancel didn’t mean cancel. And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world, with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far...”"

    “...with the listening systems we have...”? Sorry–I’m curious: what exactly are these “listening systems”?

    • Yuliya December 26, 2016 at 1:02 pm #

      Telemetry. My assumption. And look how much it "helped" in fixing the issue.

  29. Rob Van K. December 26, 2016 at 12:01 pm #

    Windows 7 will be the last Windows I ever use. Microsoft made this decision for me.

  30. Yuliya December 26, 2016 at 1:01 pm #

    "Why did Microsoft do it this way? "

    Microsoft has been very deceptive since W8 era. My assumption on the [x] button is that they were thinking about saying something along the lines - you sent the program to tray, you did not close it. Although I think they underestimated the consequences of such misleading behaviour.

    As to why they did not roll back to a previous GWX version? They did not want to. And they could have. So many times Microsoft pulled updates within hours. The SP1 update for 7 is a good example - the next day if I remember correctly was pulled from WU due to some issues with PCs joined to a domain. They re-released it in the upcoming days. If it was possible to pull an entire SP within hours, fix the issue and then rerelease it within days, then they definitely can do the same for a small update, they just didn't want to.

    Awful this new CEO. Absolutely awful. Coincidence that Microsoft's products went downhill the moment they started firing people and outsourcing to cheap workforce? I think not.

  31. Tinfoil_Hat December 26, 2016 at 11:21 pm #

    like it or not, with information technology being so widespread among people having near-zero comprehension of "computers" and/or technical background, no wonder M$ can act deceptively and force whatever seems ok for THEIR business.
    I'm not saying only properly formed and instructed people should access computers but "computer" growth outperformed normal people's "computer culture" growth; that is, people are lagging behind computer development and diffusion.
    IMHO this is exactly what was intended since time ago, that is, creating a large mass of people ignorant of real implications using certain software and OSes, let people believe they need what is imposed to them, let people believe all is done for their good. If someone arise and declare that something is wrong, he is "vox clamantis in deserto".
    Linux could be an instrument of freedom but again do not trust it as is if you are really caring for your privacy.
    A coreboot machine at this time seems the best available solution; it requires some effort as you have to purge hardware from proprietary firmware working against your privacy.

    • Tom Hawack December 26, 2016 at 11:55 pm #

      "
      "computer" growth outperformed normal people's "computer culture" growth
      "
      So true, and perhaps this is the beginning of an exponential delta. Everyone learns but more you know faster you learn hence the difference will inevitably increase. Most of us just don't realize what we are offering of our privacy in exchange of so-called free services. My only hope is that a time will come with a legal frame within international standards to include "computer" commercial practices as we already do with air, maritime transportation for example.

      Or to consider a civilization's move towards ethics, which is possible, in business included, should it be for the sole reason that intelligence as it expands will realize that there is no future without ethics, even in business.

      Whatever tomorrows there will be each and everyone of us to testify and to help. That's one aspect of the very nature of the Web crooks will never be able to withdraw : the planetary dialog where the wise and good meet the good and uneducated with in mind the "more you will have been given the more you shall give". Looks like here as in many places all over the planet this is already what is going on, aside of course hatred and hysteria.

      So I believe hope remains reasonable. If we remain attentive and driven by the best in our respective domains. It is a battle but, as Ghandi demonstrated it, there is no long-term victory when fighting with weapons and hatred. Think deep and advance generously that helping hand and never that mad fist, and the best will arise for all.

      I've been a bit lengthy and lyrical because of Tinfoil_Hat's comment, especially the sentence I quoted, which hits one of my deep concerns.

      • Brent R Jones December 28, 2016 at 5:51 pm #

        Well said, Tom.

      • Mad Bunny January 3, 2017 at 1:26 pm #

        "computer" growth outperformed normal people's "computer culture" growth"

        Not really.....not really, at all. There's a semi-deliberate attempt to make it - in effect - appear that way but a huge amount of what people perceive as growth is actually fraudulent and/or near-fraudulent rehashing and re-branding of existing technology.......with minor improvements. Perpetuating this fraud is how half the IT industry makes its money.

        And Ghandi's a poor person to quote in this situation. Not only did Sun-tzu state that better, but Ghandi was opposing a free society and those never abide by slaughter for very long. Imagine if it wasn't Britain but, Germany he was standing up to.........he and a ton of his followers would have been dead pretty quick. And there's a large segment of the Indian population that's not so impressed with Ghandi and his accomplishments. India wasn't ready to be on its own among the nations of the world. They lacked training and infrastructure and the surprising amount of poverty in India today is, in part, a direct result of that and the computer industry really isn't helping as much as it could. There's a huge brain-drain out of India going on right now, and that's not going to help the country, at all......but, I digress....

  32. Anonymous December 27, 2016 at 5:22 pm #

    We are all aware of the mass migration to smartphones which have an ease of use interface and a low level learning curve. Chrome OS (user friendly Linux for many) and Linux distros for the more knowledgeable users, being the laptop alternative. The desktop is still the best platform for running business applications and programs that meet a myriad of computing needs, but the so-called ignorant user requires considerable assistance on both workstations and home PCs. Businesses and Government want a solution to the ever increasing high costs of computing.

    I expect the heavy handiness or 'imposed' changes from Microsoft will become even more prevalent as Windows 10 evolves. All of their customers and clients are in their cross hairs. They talk a lot about windows as a service and they have shown a huge interest in AI, so it is more than possible that changes will be imposed with impunity to secure their future as a business. MS is used to getting what they want.

    I wonder if we will see an implementation of AI on the desktop to address computer ignorance and high IT operating and capital costs? Some say it will be Cortana, the 'next generation' (not the moron that exists today) which will deploy AI with cognitive learning to do what a help desk does. She has hooks everywhere so there might be potential there for her to eventually respond to error codes, error message, abends or outright OS crashes, do crash analysis and recover the user's system to full operation. I would expect that MS would not have designs on replacing entire IT departments with AI, however using cognitive learning to identify bad code and fix it, schedule an update and apply it, schedule OS upgrades, backups and recovery would reduce IT costs significantly. Cortana becomes Godzilla.

    Cloud computing is talked about for Windows apps, but we have no details. Maybe the desktop has been slated for the landfill in 2025. Marketing will handle it!

  33. Brent R Jones December 27, 2016 at 7:41 pm #

    I don't over-value my importance nor my privacy. That is why I remain a loyal customer of Microsoft. DOS was OK. ver 1.1 to 6.x. Windows was adequate at ver 3.11. I went for ten years on XP. Then I leaped to 8, 8.1 and 10. MS Office has been OK since it started and seems to be getting better. 365 and 2016 are pretty advanced and good for collaboration. Apple products are too expensive and isolated for me. Unix/Linux are good for those who prefer more privacy and are convinced that paranoia is a reasonable and modern lifestyle. And actually you might want to write your own private OS. See http://www.wikihow.com/Make-a-Computer-Operating-System I am sure that the pictures will help some of you. Cheers, and may your new year be extra interesting.

    • Tom Hawack December 27, 2016 at 8:40 pm #

      You don't over or under-value your privacy, you respect it or you don't and, in both cases, it has nothing to do with the importance we have of ourselves but is the natural expression of dignity. That this dignity be omitted or forgotten, mainly by the younger generation, when so many goodies attract some in the same way several zeroes after a number on a check may get the most honest woman to reconsider her basics, is a fact, yet not everyone is concerned.

      Paranoia explains many behaviors in life but not all. Woody Allen's "Just because youre paranoid doesnt mean they arent out to get you" is eloquent. Think about it.

      Best wishes for a reasonably happy new year :)

      • Brent R Jones December 28, 2016 at 4:43 pm #

        I value my privacy correctly.

    • A or B, not C. December 28, 2016 at 6:24 am #

      @ Brent RJ ....... That means u do not value the sacrifices of those who fought n died for US Independence in 1776 n to establish the US Constitution, eg the 1791 Amendment for freedom of speech n religion n the 1792 Fourth Amendment against arbitrary search n seizure.
      ....... This is notwithstanding, for US National Security against Muslim terrorism. Did the same thing happen for US National Security against communist terrorism during the 1950s n 1960s.?

      • Brent R Jones December 28, 2016 at 4:54 pm #

        You are confused. I hope that you become more enlightened.
        My daughter is a Major in the Air Force, serving for 2 years in Korea. Very proud of her and her husband who is a B-52 and U2 pilot.
        My father is a Marine who is 93 years old. Also very proud of him.
        I fly the flag and am loyal to my homeland.
        My best friend in the world, who passed away, was a Muslim who trusted in Jesus Christ.
        I have many Saudi friends, some who have boarded in my home. I trust them with my life every time I go to sleep. So does my wife. I have many Christian friends and some non-religious ones I respect the privacy of others.

      • A or B, not C. December 29, 2016 at 7:57 am #

        @ Brent RJ ....... I'm not talking about yr patriotism, liberalism or apparent foolishness.
        ....... Fyi, Obama n the liberal Democrats hv used the IRS n the liberal mass media to do political-targeting against conservative personalities, orgs, websites n blogs, ala Watergate. If Win 10 is an NSA spyware, which it very likely is, those controlling the US govt, esp the liberal Democrats, may do the same, ie abuse their power to spy on Win 10 users for political-targeting purposes.
        ....... Additionally, thru Win 10, M$ may spy on their business competitors, M$'s rogue employees may steal stock insider info or take web-cam photos of nude girls, the US govt may ..., hackers may ... etc.
        .
        The key here is empathy or compassion for others.
        ....... The mostly Protestant US Founding Fathers had empathy for the Protestant Christians who had been martyred n persecuted for their religion n speech by the powerful Catholic govts in Europe from the 16th to the 18th century. Most of the early American settlers in USA during the 17th century were refugees escaping religious wars n persecution in Europe.
        ....... In USA today, there hv been a lot of political persecution, esp against the conservatives, eg being fired or bankrupted for voicing out their conservative or anti-liberal opinions. The Win 10 spyware will likely make this worse.

      • GBH December 29, 2016 at 9:26 am #

        “The mostly Protestant US Founding Fathers had empathy for the Protestant Christians who had been martyred n persecuted for their religion n speech by the powerful Catholic govts in Europe...”

        This attempt at a sentence is so unclear and misleading as to be basically false Yes, the US Founding Fathers were mostly Protestant. That’s the only clear correct statement here. Indeed, there was only one Catholic signer of the Declaration of Independence: Charles Carroll, of whom one source notes especially his “persistent efforts to promote and establish the concept of religious toleration,” which were “embodied in the founding documents and laws of our country still used today...” So you can thank especially the Catholic Charles Carrollton for the empathy and religious tolerance enshrined in your founding documents and laws. Some of your Protestant Founders had anything but “empathy,” when it came to Catholic Christians.

        But in those original thirteen British colonies all but one of the US Founding Fathers you talk about were mostly of British descent, and Britain of course was Protestant and had been persecuting and martyring Catholics since 1534, when King Henry VIII broke away from the Catholic Church and began the English Reformation, following on the heels of Luther’s Protestant Reformation seventeen years earlier in 1517. So your characterization is horribly misleading and really the opposite of the truth. In fact, it was not at all like you make it sound: the US Founding Fathers were primarily British (with Britain being led by an all-powerful Protestant king who was martyring and persecuting Catholics) and the US Founding Fathers were reacting overwhelmingly against this Protestant British monarchy.

      • A or B, not C. December 29, 2016 at 4:41 pm #

        @ GBH ....... U may hv the wrong interpretation of Church history. King Henry VIII replaced Catholicism with Anglicanism(= Church of England/CoE) in England just bc the Pope did not grant him a divorce. If u notice, the Church of England was n is very similar to the Roman Catholic Church even though they r considered as Protestants, eg the vestment/attire n ceremonies.
        ....... After persecuting the Catholics, the Kings/Queens n the CoE went on to persecute all Christian dissenters, eg the Puritans, Quakers, etc..
        ....... IOW, the CoE was a pseudo-Roman Catholic Church or RCC Junior.

        The early American settlers in USA during the 17th century were mostly Protestant refugees(eg German n Dutch Christians) escaping religious persecution n wars in Europe, be it by the Catholic govts in continental Europe or by the Anglican govt in Britain.
        ....... After the American colonies became successful, many Anglicans from England joined the "gold rush" as the American colonies were then under British rule.

      • GBH December 30, 2016 at 1:51 am #

        ABC: “the Church of England was n is very similar to the Roman Catholic Church”

        Parroting this commonly-held but utterly wrong myth is to no avail. You may have a wrong interpretation of Church history, as you call it, or only a superficial familiarity with it. Rejection of papal authority, apostolic succession, magisterial teaching, denial of real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, denial of so many other doctrines too numerous to mention, acceptance of abortion, artificial contraception, assisted suicide, gay marriage, ordination of women–which led to the current schismatic state of the C of E--etc., there are virtually no “similarities” between C of E and RCC. Even the “ceremonies,” as you call them, are not similar, if one has a fundamental understanding of what is going on in each of them.

        The C of E is in virtually no way similar to the RCC; in fact the C of E is actually opposed to the RCC in virtually every fundamental way.

      • A or B, not C. December 30, 2016 at 6:10 am #

        @ GBH ....... The head of the RCC = the Pope of Vatican City. The head of the CoE = King/Queen of England. Hence, the CoE was n is similar to the RCC.
        ....... It would be very daft n foolish of King Henry VIII to reject/eject the RCC from England, establish his CoE as a replacement(to control/influence his subjects) n then still submit to papal authority.

      • GBH December 30, 2016 at 6:40 am #

        @ABC I have shown what was wrong with some of your most egregiously unclear, misleading, and incorrect statements, and why; you have shown that you cannot respond logically and coherently–hence (to use your word correctly) I am done with you. Wish you and everyone a Happy New Year!

      • A or B, not C. December 30, 2016 at 12:57 pm #

        @ GBH ....... Fyi, many history books recorded how corrupt n evil were the Roman Catholic Popes b4, during n after the Protestant Reformation in 1520. Martin Luther, a German monk professor, "protested" the Popes corrupt selling of papal indulgences to the ignorant n gullible Catholic masses.
        ....... Not very long after the Protestant Reformation, religious wars between the more powerful Catholic kingdoms n the Protestant kingdoms(eg Germany n Holland) in Europe. During the tumult, King Henry VIII took advantage of the situation to "dethrone" the Pope from England.

      • aanslag December 31, 2016 at 2:03 am #

        @ABC Fyi many books record how corrupt n evil Protestants were n are and how mentally ill that Catholic priest Martin Luther who began Protestantism was...many Protestants on TV for decades n still today show how ignorant n gullible the Protestant masses are

      • A or B, not C. December 31, 2016 at 6:22 am #

        @ aanslag ....... The Popes scammed millions of Catholics during the era of the Holy Roman Empire. False Protestant leaders could only scam, at most, some thousands of Protestants, esp only those from their own church. It's like "Pope" Hitler versus "Pastor" Mussolini in WW2.

    • Corky December 28, 2016 at 9:43 am #

      @Brent R Jones, To state you don't overestimate your importance or privacy is probably one of the most pernicious statements I've ever heard, not only because it devalues you and by extension the society you live in, but also because it overvalues the importance of both governments and corporations.

      The dog is meant to be wagging its tail not the other way around.

      • Brent R Jones December 28, 2016 at 5:18 pm #

        Corky,
        Pernicious is defined by the Oxford Dictionary as:
        Having a harmful effect, especially in a gradual or subtle way:
        ‘the pernicious influences of the mass media’
        -----------------
        My choice of operating systems doesn't have a harmful effect. My view of personal importance or personal privacy is only my view, nothing more, nothing less.
        If the NSA knows that I befriend Muslim people and connect with them by phone, email, Facebook, etc., it concerns me, not one wit. I do not hide that I love Jesus Christ, served 8 years as a missionary in Pakistan and hope for the Body of Christ to grow in love and numbers. I hope that Muslims will see the evil of following anything other than Jesus.
        I am opposed the size and management of the bloated government that we now have. Most of our political leaders do not represent the electorate. They are arrogant, egotistical and twist the use of power. Also, I am opposed to the power of rich people. Corporations are controlled by them, and merely an extension of the rich.

        Why are we talking politics here? This is a technical forum. May Microsoft, the Borg of software corporations, make Windows less pernicious and more useful and less expensive. May Apple live long a prosper making superior products! May Apple and other big corporations making great profits abroad be subject to the same laws that I am, therefore being required to pay the share of taxes that is fair and just. Live in peace and prosper. (at least those who think wisely)

      • Tom Hawack December 28, 2016 at 5:33 pm #

        @Brent... sorry for interfering but when you write "the evil of following anything other than Jesus." I remain stunned. That's not the reality and being so brutal in definitions is not, IMO, the right way. Especially coming from someone who has traveled and lived in a Muslim country. You cannot sy things like that!

        Evil, as love, is one of those tarnished words used everywhere.

      • Corky December 29, 2016 at 9:43 am #

        @Brent R Jones, There's no need for a definition of a word, I'm well aware of the meaning of the words i use.

        First i never said your choice of OS has a harmful effect i said your lackadaisical attitude towards privacy and your important was harmful, and the very fact you can't see how harmful it is goes to show your lack of understanding on the subject.

        May i suggest listening to this 20min TED talk from Glenn Greenwald about why privacy matters, based on your view of governments i hope you'll find it both interesting and enlightening.

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcSlowAhvUk

  34. Kate December 27, 2016 at 11:20 pm #

    I chose to download the Windows 10 update early on, and I very much like the OS, but Microsoft did go way too far in pushing the upgrade on people. It seems like they just can't learn. It's the exact same arrogance that made them think that Windows 8 was a good idea, that they could radically alter the way people use desktop PCs and use one version of an OS for tablets and desktops and that they somehow knew better than the consumer even when the consumers complained about how clunky and obtuse it was to use on a desktop. It's just taken another form, this time in forcing a consumer product on people who didn't want it or who were not ready for it. And it's sad, because it is a good OS, but they've now converted a bunch of people who were just on the fence about getting it, to people who are absolutely determined not only to not get Windows 10, but maybe never deal with Microsoft again. I agree that it really speaks to a very arrogant corporate culture at Microsoft that is materially damaging the brand.

    • Jeff December 28, 2016 at 2:59 pm #

      You have no idea what you are talking about. It's NOT a good OS by any means, not even remotely close to being a good OS.

      • Kate December 28, 2016 at 9:26 pm #

        You probably need to take several seats and a chill. Just because I have a different opinion than you on an ultimately subjective issue, does not mean that I "don't know what I'm talking about". I've worked in the industry for the last 8 years. I repair and troubleshoot computers on a daily basis. Other than yes, the over aggressive way that Windows 10 has been forced on consumers, I do think it's a good OS. It works well, is very fast, and is a vast improvement over Windows 8 on traditional desktops. But hey that's just my opinion. You're free to have a different one without me attacking your credibility or anything. Have a nice day.

      • Tom Hawack December 28, 2016 at 9:49 pm #

        @Kate, I agree, I mean how to disagree with freedom of opinion and speech?

        Here on Ghacks we've already evoked Voltaire's "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say It". Maybe not to the death as far as I'm concerned but that's the idea :)

        Anyway, one person one experience, let's forget demagogy. If you're happy with Win10 then that's the main thing. I'm just wondering how this is possible, lol :)

      • Stephen Crisdale December 29, 2016 at 12:19 am #

        I think you will find Tom; that how it is possible will continue to remain a mystery, just as the happiness of others who are nothing like them, appears to be a mystery to those who expect happiness to only be accessible to those like themselves.
        Let's just say that for those of us who have found Windows 10 to be the best OS we have worked with (notice I didn't type "used") to date (notice I didn't type "ever", because that would assume there's not room for improvement and we all know nothing is perfect - or do we?!!) there's plenty of 'under the hood' adjustment/s and given so much of the OS is based upon Win7/8/8.1, it's actually quite easy to set it up to work pretty darn close to those predecessor OS's both visually and functionally...
        I guess like much in life though, it depends so much upon the person. How prepared they are to actually 'work' to get what they want, or whether they just want it all handed to them on a plate.
        Sure; Microsnot is a "big bad nasty corporation", but there's a difference between the wariness of the wise and the paranoia of the overly skittish - and I'd have hoped the human mind was more adept at finding solutions, rather than just giving up every time they hear some nervous nelly crying out that the "sky is falling, the sky is falling"... even if doing so is their right.

      • A or B, not C. December 29, 2016 at 7:29 am #

        @ Kate & Stephen C ....... Fyi, certain things/objects are not subjective but objective. Nearly the whole world agreed that Win Vista and Win 8 were dud OS'es or flops, Martin Shkreli of Turing Pharma is an evil profit-gouger, Muslim terrorism is evil n Takata airbags r dangerous. Similarly for Win 10, esp its schizophreniac or mongrel-half-mobile-half-desktop Metro Tiles UI. If u say otherwise, u r likely just a stubborn or biased subject., eg M$ shills or astro-turfers/sock-puppets.

      • Tom Hawack December 29, 2016 at 12:27 pm #

        @Stephen Crisdale, I read your comment and, later on (as often with me) had your words in mind, the idea you express made it's way in my thoughts...

        I agree fundamentally. I acknowledge what is obvious, that is the difference between a placid, individual approach of a problematic and a rallying to a mass' yells and cries. I think guest 'A or B, not C' mentions this correctly when he states "certain things/objects are not subjective but objective". I dislike as you I presume the idea -- the fact -- of participating to a general trend, mood, fashion, be it of love or hatred, I believe freedom requires the effort of objectivity. And -- essentially -- I have not tested myself Windows 10.

        But caution includes avoiding what we perceive as a danger and the very nature of caution is consequently making a decision about something we may have not experienced; this may not be logical but it is coherent in the mind of whoever prefers to avoid a risk than repair its possible consequences. So : how to decide? I guess, once we have tried to differentiate yells and hatred from arguments and testimonies of those who have taken the risk (willingly or not as with Win10), it all sums up to a blend of objectivity, risk and caution. From what I've read and continue to read about Windows10 I just do not believe the OS is worth it, not at this time anyway.

        But, but but .. I may be wrong. Windows 10 is definitely and objectively problematic at its present stage of development. No hatred. But, maybe, there could be one's mistake concerning Microsoft's intentions, its long-term policy. Again, I read the unprecedented amount of privacy concerns and, again, objectively I could and maybe should imagine data collection is for our good, for a free world's better protection, in one word : motivated by honest aims. I could or should but I won't. I'm not saying I'm right.

        Anyway, it's only about computing, not to be given the importance of, say, abolitionism and other society concerns far more "existential" than privacy and security over the networks.

  35. Walt Rountree December 28, 2016 at 4:06 am #

    2 things. 1) I have not switched to Linux for the same reason I do not want Windows 10. I do not want to use a new and different interface instead of what I am familiar with. 2) The real problem is that Microsoft tried to force me to change. The "X" that did not close the window was just another Microsoft trick to force Windows 10 on those of us that do not want it. Thanks to you, Martin, I never installed the damn thing.

    Furthermore, I already knew they were bad. What convinced me of Microsoft's evil was what they did to Netscape and those of us that used that wonderful invention.

  36. KFM December 29, 2016 at 7:21 am #

    and it makes ME wonder what Chris Capossela really means when hes uses terms like "listening systems". I read that over a couple of times and the first thought that popped in my head was all the fuss over Windows 10 and privacy concerns. Hmmm! For the record, I tried...HARD...to upgrade to Windows 10 from 8.1. I tried different install methods, clearing this file and that file, every tutorial I could find, and I couldn't upgrade to 10.

    • Hy December 29, 2016 at 8:01 am #

      KFM: “and it makes ME wonder what Chris Capossela really means when hes uses terms like "listening systems".”

      Yep, that’s what jumped out at me, too. When I hear an MS bigwig mention something sinister-sounding like that--“with the listening systems we have”--it sounds more like the Stasi talking than it does a software maker.

      But “listening systems” and big data by way of harvesting and selling as much of your personal information as possible–often without the vast majority of users’ knowledge–is what Microsoft is all about now under this current CEO and his regime.

    • John in Mtl December 30, 2016 at 3:21 pm #

      Gosh you guys have no imagination. Or too much of it...

      Sure there is telemetry now in win 7 and win 8.1 that is "listening" but that's not necessarily the whole of it.

      When MS says “with the listening systems we have”, it could ALSO mean: we read blogs, articles in all the tech magazines; we read forums, read the mainstream newspapers, we read all the social media networks, etc. They are not stupid and clueless; far, far from it.

      And, no, I don't use windows 10, I value my privacy too much!

      • Tom Hawack December 30, 2016 at 3:29 pm #

        OK. But perhaps what may trigger a questioning is the word "systems". I mean, when I read "listening system" I think more of a search of extra-terrestrial life than a commitment to today's last press releases.

      • Hy December 30, 2016 at 10:21 pm #

        @John in Mtl: When I first saw what the MS exec said: “And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world, with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far...” I wondered similarly: telemetry? But what kind of telemetry would tell them, “within a couple of hours” of release, that they “had gone too far”? Telemetry could indicate objective measures, I suppose, like how many users had been duped into installing, but I can’t imagine what kind of telemetry would tell MS, within a couple of hours, that they “had gone too far.” I don’t think “listening systems”--in this case, at least--refers to telemetry.

        Then I wondered similarly as you: is “with the listening systems we have” just a weird-sounding, creepy-sounding way to say what you suggest? I don’t think there would be too many, if any, magazine and newspaper articles written and published “within a couple of hours,” but maybe there would be some blog and forum posts written and posted within the first couple of hours, and certainly it’s conceivable that some rants turned up quickly on Twitter and Facebook, etc.. I think the latter would be the most likely (and numerous) within such a short time as a couple of hours.

        But I don’t think they actually “read” all that stuff you suggest. I’m thinking now more of something that works along the lines of Google Alerts, for example. Although I don’t know precisely how that would work with accessing private users’ social media posts. I don’t recall, from my limited use of Google Alerts, results being returned within minutes of when they were first published on the web, and I don’t recall any results containing individual users’ social media posts.

        It may not be at all important or interesting to most people, and I understand that; I was just wondering precisely what kind of “listening systems” the mighty Microsoft had at their disposal.

        P.S. Do Microsoft's "listening systems" report back to them right away everything we write about them here on ghacks, for example? :)

      • Hy December 31, 2016 at 12:08 am #

        @John in Mtl: When I first saw what the MS exec said: “And within a couple of hours of that hitting the world, with the listening systems we have we knew that we had gone too far...” I wondered similarly: telemetry? But what kind of telemetry would tell them, “within a couple of hours” of release, that they “had gone too far”? Telemetry could indicate objective measures, I suppose, like how many users had been duped into installing, but I can’t imagine what kind of telemetry would tell MS, within a couple of hours, that they “had gone too far.” I don’t think “listening systems”–in this case, at least--refers to telemetry.

        Then I wondered similarly as you: is “with the listening systems we have” just a weird-sounding, creepy-sounding way to say what you suggest? I don’t think there would be too many, if any, magazine and newspaper articles written and published “within a couple of hours,” but maybe there would be some blog and forum posts written and posted within the first couple of hours, and certainly it’s conceivable that some rants turned up quickly on Twitter and Facebook, etc.. I think the latter would be the most likely (and numerous) within such a short time as a couple of hours.

        But I don’t think they actually “read” all that stuff you suggest. I’m thinking now more of something that works along the lines of Google Alerts, for example. Although I don’t know precisely how that would work with accessing private users’ social media posts. I don’t recall, from my limited use of Google Alerts, results being returned within minutes of when they were first published on the web, and I don’t recall any results containing individual users’ social media posts.

        It may not be at all important or interesting to most people, and I understand that; I was just wondering precisely what kind of “listening systems” the mighty Microsoft had at their disposal.

        P.S. Do the “listening systems” that Microsoft has report back to them right away what we write about them here on ghacks, for example? :)

  37. fg December 29, 2016 at 9:20 am #

    @Stephen Crisdale All the book smarts in the world mean very little without any level of common sense , which you seem to be without on any level . It is a shame to read the words of someone so lost in a world of wonderful wording as to not be connected mentally to the world around them as a bat without echolocation flying into walls inside the cave . The entire world does not exist just within you're mind .

  38. Stephen Crisdale December 30, 2016 at 12:26 am #

    Perhaps you're right @fg... though it appears to have escaped you, just how uncommon "common sense" actually is - much like manners, decency, consideration for others and a healthy dose of self effacement.
    It strikes me, that you're in fact blind to the one thing so many people of today are blind to - given even an echolocation free bat like I can smell it in your post from miles off; namely, hubris.
    You talk big, in the hope that others will follow your lead, rather than allowing any room for others to make up their own minds. It matters not to me which OS somebody finds through experience is the one they're most comfortable with - it's the presumption of individuals like yourself that prompts my commentary and responses in forums like this, not whether MS is or isn't the biggest "corporate baddie on planet Earth". My dislike of watching gullible individuals being goaded by those who presume to 'know better' into following like sheeple is an outcome of my sense of empathy, rather than any self righteous sense of "preventing harm". I don't presume to have that right.
    Perhaps not presuming to have the right to tell others how to live their lives, is emblematic to you of my lack of common sense; in which case I'd definitely not feel lacking in any way, shape or form.
    Have a Happy New Year.

  39. Owl December 30, 2016 at 4:24 am #

    Anonymous: "Microsoft malicious behaviour can be compare to a pervert Indian Taxi Driver that does not understand what the word NO means." IS a racist statement. Talk about stereotyping. Why can't others see this?

    Hy: It's not the stasi, its corporate speak. :)

    (Has everyone gone nuts?)

    • Tom Hawack December 30, 2016 at 11:30 am #

      I disagree. What would be racist would be to state "[...]compare to pervert Indian taxi drivers[...]" which would mean a generalization, hence the basis of segregation. Mentioning the "a" taxi driver, moreover with capital letters for "taxi" and "driver" leaves no doubt as to the identity in this case and targets one individuality whatever.

  40. Owl December 30, 2016 at 12:49 pm #

    Tom H: With all due respect, (I'm sure you are not a racist:)), the sentence read generically to me. Unless someone called 'Anonymous' knows a pervert who happens to be a cab driver and an Indian? I'm no grammarian, I guess this highlights the importance of words, though?

    • Tom Hawack December 30, 2016 at 2:41 pm #

      Neither one of us is racist, definitely. But what is racism? What are sexism, fascism, machismo ... nowadays big words tend to replace an insult with these often pseudo arguments.

      Generally speaking, there are no human races but one only human specie. Modern language has diverted human differences within the category of race, ok. Mentioning a human race is not racist as such, even if it is false. What is racism is the fact of believing that among these hypothetical races one or some would be superior, intellectually, physically, even biologically! That is true racism.

      From there on the word "racism" is often used when in fact the reality is segregation, based on skin, religion, sexual orientation, political commitments, social references and so on. This is IMO absurd. Why? Mainly because any generalization is meaningless. Morality hasn't it's place here, this is basically a brain failure motivated by the need to have certitudes, definitions which explain it all.

      But then, when is segregation active? I do not believe thet expressing a preference is "racist" or let's say segregationist. I don't think that pointing a country's likeliness to include *some* taxi drivers that insist when you say "no" is segregation, because the likeliness is true. What becomes problematic, IMO, is when such a likeliness is erected as the fact of all, as if we would say Scots or Dutch are skinflint. It would be problematic because intellectually speaking it has no basis, but still, I'm not sure this would express a whatever segregation, when it would if the speaker included such a fact, implicitly or explicitly, as a contribution to the assertion that Scots or Dutch are inferior. It is a stupid statement but not racist, otherwise.

      Racism and differences. I remember a TV show here in France where a famous French singer said "One day racism will be of the past, and we'll all be blue". Such a statement means that difference is considered as the cause and vector of racism, and this is, IMO, a dramatic conception of diversity, Diversity is what makes the world advance and progress, America is strong also because of its diversity. "Purity" otherwise than within holiness and when conceived as a quest signs fragility and decline. In this perspective I consider "tolerance" as a dangerous word even if it is better than intolerance, but dangerous because it moves the problem : we should not have to be tolerant if we considered differences as sources of evolution, physical intellectual and moral, physical as well : life needs, wants to discover and empowers itself by the continuous flows and blends, everywhere, always, it learns from what is new. Why shouldn't we think and behave as such, we too?

      So you see, Owl, from there on, my beliefs, I tend to be cautious when it comes to defining a statement as racist.
      The topic is essential and a few words are insufficient to consider all causes, facts and consequences.

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