Windows Vista Critics Love Windows Mojave

Give me a break. What kind of computer expert cannot tell what os he is working on?

Sounds very Microfi$hy to me…

I am really interested in seeing that footage. Together with hardware specs and what were people actually allowed to do with it.

Hmm physiology needs to be taken seriously, maybe if Mac rebranded an OSX and let me try it I might not hate it that much.

>Give me a break. What kind of computer expert cannot tell what os he is working on?

As far as I understood it was focus group of common users.

I don’t believe it! Even an half-baked so called expert CAN tell the difference between any OS. Sure they might have changed themes and wall paper but still cannot account for the rave reviews. Also Michael suddenly in love with Vista?

hahaha, that doesn’t surprise me one bit. Yogi, well that entirely depends whether you have ever used the OS before (or even if you have it depends how much). Surely they didn’t use the aero theme in that experiment, because that would’ve given it away. And the most obvious answer to your question is actually a counter-question: how many vista critics are ‘computer experts’?

Rarst is right, it was common users and not professionals, I edited the article to make it clearer.

Is it just me or is Microsoft getting desperate? Showing people a video of an OS and letting them use it for a month are two very different things.

I have used Vista and Vista doesn’t offering anything new to justify using it. There are some nice new features in Vista but you can get most of these in XP with a couple of free/freeware programs.

To play games on Vista you need to uses 512MB more RAM then XP, I know you get DirectX® 10 with Vista but this feature is coming soon to XP as DirectX 9.0 L, and does Vista really justify an extra 1/2 a gig of RAM to play games? is the gaming experience better in Vista then XP?

Vista is fine for the first week, its only after a couple of weeks you start noticing things that just don’t work. One of these things is copying files to a removable drive, this is just painfully slow compared to XP and using bittorrent over wifi just doesn’t work. Period.

Then you get the problem of hardware, I have a printer and a webcam (granted an old webcam) that just don’t work in Vista. I was kind of lucky as these where the only things that didn’t work for me but I know of people that have had it a lot worse.

Also couple of my games didn’t work, the main one being Bioshock, this game worked fine on XP but the minute I tried to play it on Vista I started to get sound issues and couldn’t find a fix for it.

Vista was very stable and pretty fast for the first 3 days but the minute I added a couple of programs (and I mean only a couple) like a PDF reader, Nero, Firefox, and the programs that need to be installed to be able to view all the content on the web, Java, flash ect. Vista started to get very slow and painful to use.

I haven’t got the best PC in the world but its still a pretty good PC and got a Windows Experience Index Score of 4.1 but I did find Vista slow, I couldn’t imagine what its like to run Vista on a budget PC that I have seen being sold with Vista pre-installed, these budget PC’s have much lower specs then what I have and I find it very hard to believe that these PC’s could run Vista.

Over all Vista isn’t a bad OS and I could live with the problems that it has got, but why would I want to live with these problems when they don’t exists in XP? and Vista uses more system resources then XP and doesn’t really offer anything to justify it.

So why would anyone run an OS that requires more to run and has more problems then it predecessor and doesn’t really offer anything new apart from annoying the user with it’s User Account Control.

[...] labiau neįtikėtinas Microsoft triukas su vadinamaisiais „Vista kritikais“. Pranešama, kad Microsoft pavyko juos apgauti vos pakeitus OS pavadinimą į „Windows Mojave“. Neva 90% bandžiusių tą „Mojave“ (kuri buvo ta pati Vista, žinoma), nusprendė, kad ji [...]

Having studied psychology, it would not surprise me in the slightest if this was true.

However, I am actually more shocked at Microsoft for being so cocky. Still I adopted Vista VERY early on and had no issues.

The one person I new who was having trouble with vista happened to be using it on laptop that only had 500mb of RAM. It was just bought bundled with vista.

I think a lot of the shops pushing vista with products that can’t handle it could be a partial explanation for some bad press.

I like Vista, granted mine is heavily tweaked, but that is only to my own specification and personal needs. There are few things I dislike about it.

>I think a lot of the shops pushing vista with products that can’t handle it could be a partial explanation for some bad press.

It is actually one of the main reasons for bad press. People can live with driver problems and such but being locked into OS that is too heavy for hardware it is bundled with = very crappy experience.

@darkkosmos

I’m sure that “physiology” should be taken seriously too. Do you think the group of users were of a particular “physiology”, leading them to have a particular psychological reaction to the test?

Rarst I think you hit the nail on the head. I have found you either need a really big single core or a dual core CPU and at the least 2gb of memory. I build computers so over time this has become clear to me. My Personal PC is an Intel core 2 quad core and its lightning fast If you want to multi-task with vista you need multiple cores . I would love to see how an extreme Quad core performs a little to pricey right now so I do not think I will be getting any requests to build one of those anytime soon.

Their marketing page up:
http://www.mojaveexperiment.com/

“live 10 minute demo” doesn’t sound very serious…

This wasn’t a group of computer experts, it was a group of general end users. The test was to see whether consumers who had never used Vista, but had been turned off it by the negative media, would like it if they actually tried it.

Content on their site is up… And it sucks.

No exact hardware specs and no actual demo - we don’t get to see what was shown to focus group.

There are around 50+ very short clips and there are same people all over it. If you are calling it experiment why not release all footage? They even used one of the clips twice.

Less than 1% Linux users in focus group - yeah, that’s very representative. Out of 120 that equals like one?

It’s not experiment, it’s advertisement.

[...] is trying to prove to the world that Windows Vista is not as bad as a large portion of the public and press is seeing [...]

Rarst yeah I saw it as well and have written an article about it.

I saw the Mohave experiment also I really do not think this will change peoples perspective on vista from my experience on some of the online forums I am a member of some people have made up there minds and there is no changing I am at the point where I am sick off these people some have never even owned a copy of Vista . Others just bash Microsoft & Windows because its the trendy thing to do.Then their are the people who barely know how to turn the computer on and all of a sudden they are experts on Vista . I was a Beta tester for Vista I have been using it since the beginning and I really did not have that much trouble but then again I did not have any false expectations because I knew what to expect .I just wish people would educate themselves on the subject they are talking about before they start shooting their mouths off . I have also tried the Mac OS and some of the Linux distro’s and they are no where near as good as Vista or XP. I do like linux but its not easy enough for your grandma to use and talk about driver issues Linux has lots of them

Robert I was also tester, but I was a tester for Longhorn, and if Vista turned out like Longhorn it would of been a great OS. They removed a lot of the good features that was in Longhorn that they should of kept in, like the WinFS file system.

Vista is a poor OS anyone who knows anything about an OS will agree. Where do you think all this negative opinions came from?

I use and like XP so I haven’t got anything against Microsoft, what I don’t like is Vista, for many reasons that I have already covered in my other post here.

What you said about Linux is just not true any more, driver support is much better in Linux then in Vista and my grandparents use Ubuntu 8.04 because I got fed up getting called up every 5 minutes because Windows would popup a scary message that they didn’t understand.

Once Ubuntu is setup with all the video codecs and plug-ins for the web, it really doesn’t need maintaining. The only thing I do when I go round my grandparents house is to do an update, but that’s all I do, it never needs fixing.

[...] Betriebssysteme, Windows Microsoft versucht die öffentliche, eher negative, Meinung über Windows Vista zu verändern. Ein Weg den Microsoft eingeschlagen hat war das sogenannte Mojave Experiment das [...]

[...] Betriebssysteme, Windows Microsoft versucht die öffentliche, eher negative, Meinung über Windows Vista zu verändern. Ein Weg den Microsoft eingeschlagen hat war das sogenannte Mojave Experiment das [...]

@Robert… completely agree with you. Linux is good, great in a lot of ways, but right now It doesn’t present the complete experience Windows does, many bits feel clunky, especially file management and application UIs. Performance and visual effects are fantastic though, compiz is amazing.

“Robert I was also tester, but I was a tester for Longhorn, and if Vista turned out like Longhorn it would of been a great OS. They removed a lot of the good features that was in Longhorn that they should of kept in, like the WinFS file system. Vista is a poor OS anyone who knows anything about an OS will agree. Where do you think all this negative opinions came from?”

Pinguy I’m sorry but I think this shows how little you do know about OS’s.

Vista was a necessary step to bring in those Longhorn features further along… that has always been the intention. Without Vista WinFS and everything else people whinge about being dropped from Vista would not be possible.

Josh these negative opinions come from people who do not know what they are doing and they are trying to run old Hardware and software. Windows is the only operating system that I know of that supplies this much backwards compatibility they have spoiled us and now some people just expect stuff that is way to old to work and most of the time it does work but when it does not work people get mad and start bashing Microsoft why am I not having these driver & software problems ,I will tell you why because I am running modern up to date hardware and software , you also must run at least 2 gigs of ram . Allot of these people are blaming Microsoft for their computer problems when they should be blaming the manufacturer of their computer remember Microsoft doe not make hardware they make software.
Allot of peoples Vista Problems are caused by these manufacturers selling Vista on PC’s that are not good enough for Vista When Microsoft put out there minimum requirements they said those specifications would run Vista they did not say it would run fast . A friend of mine bought one of the so called vista ready PC’s and was telling me Vista sucked so I told him to try out my PC which I built it is an Intel quad core and he could not believe the difference .

>negative opinions come from people who do not know what they are doing

Anyone who disagrees with you sucks at computers? Stupid argument.

>I am running modern up to date hardware and software

Not everyone upgrades for the sake of upgrading. Hardware changes every 1-2 years, computer can work perfectly few times that.

>you also must run at least 2 gigs of ram

Sure, pay for Vista, pay for upgrade/new desktop, multiply by number of users if it’s at work… To get what?

>Allot of these people are blaming Microsoft for their computer problems when they should be blaming the manufacturer of their computer remember Microsoft does not make hardware they make software.

Microsoft had PCs certification program for Vista. Microsoft allowed to put certificates on desktops that were clearly underpowered. And suddenly all blame goes on manufacturers?

The Mohave “experiment” proves that a salesman can convince an inexperienced computer user to like Vista. I knew that already.

The problem is that plenty of people with long term experience with Vista HATE IT !

I paid for a OS that forced me to struggle against its stupid security scheme. Wonder if that was part of the Mohave experiment.

This was not an experiment. It was a DECEPTIVE SALES TALK.

Rarst I know all about their certification Program I just was not stupid enough to believe it if you did maybe you should get a Mac , Apple is really good at lying . All Companies lie about their product to some extent why would Microsoft be any different. I do not believe something somebody else has said just because they say it . I do my home work and to be fair Vista did run on those minimum requirements it just did not run very good . All the PC I build for vista are intel dual and quad core and they all run Vista beautifully .If you are whining Vista suck you obvious do not know what your doing . my argument is no more stupid than yours , because I know plenty of people who are not having problems people who are not having problems do not complain , so there is a good chance that there are just as many people or more using Vista that are having a positive experience which is why I say that either people do not know what they are doing or they are not willing to spend the money to get new hardware and if this is the case then they should stay with XP but do not bash Vista Just because they are not smart enough to get it working or can not afford to upgrade.I am not on all these tech news sites whining Vista won’t work for me what do you think I am lying about it working good for me. What if this bashing puts Microsoft out of the operating system business it could happen if the next version of Windows gets this same unfounded bad publicity and then what will we do use Linux or Apple no thanks .

>If you are whining Vista suck you obvious do not know what your doing .

You didn’t even bother to read what my complaints about Vista are.

Rarst there is really only one answer to all this:

Use Vista.

Not just that, use Vista with a willingness to learn.

I really don’t mean to degrade your opinion, but unless you actually use the product on a day to day basis your statements are really just based on what your seeing around the place and in the media.

The only people I’ve met who tried Vista and hated it so much the instantly downgraded are those people who either tried the product back when it was first released and understandably had a lot more issues, or those who are completely cynical to begin with.

Before I got Vista I was just like you, thought it was this complete train wreck. When I first got it I spent 3 days trouble-shooting problems… some driver updates later and things where working good.

the many changes seemed pointless (eg: start menu) and I too thought it was a step backwards.

Unfortunately Microsoft had to make a whole lot of decisions which where unpopular, yet essential for Windows long term… eg: UAC.

Many other things where design and usability decisions which while they at first seem unreasonable or unfounded, rapidly become clear as to why they’ve been made. (eg: progress barless defragmentor)

Other things such as the integrated search simply arn’t initially obvious as to how incredibly useful they really are.

But I promise you, use Vista for a few month, THEN go back to XP. THEN come back with your opinion over which is better, and weather or not Vista is a huge leap forward.

You recommend approaching Vista with a “willingness to learn”

I’m in the computer field and I can tell you are too.

Your piece is written from the point of view of someone with the patience and skill to overcome tricky systems issues.

But Windows is an OS meant for use by the general public. As such it needs to be usable by minimally capable consumer.

I’ve got 21 years of computer experience. MS has no excuse for subjecting me (or anyone) to the Vista UAC.

There are 5 computers total in my household with a very wide range of hardware specs. All of them run XP or Vista, and 2 of them dual boot, so I’d say we’ve given both OSes a fair chance. I just “downgraded” one of the weaker PCs from Vista (which it was bundled with) to XP, and my family is amazed at the difference in performance. With Vista, it could take 20 minutes to an hour simply to open a webpage and print it. Now it takes about 2 minutes, as it should. Even on a computer with stronger specs, what’s the purpose of using Vista over XP? From what we can tell, Vista is a pretty-looking resource hog. If we were that worried about looks, we could make XP look just as nice for a fraction of the cost (both in resources and the cost of the OS itself).

A better experiment would have been to give the subjects copies of “Windows Mojave” to use and see if they still loved it a few months later.

Okay sorry I should have clarified a little more… untill pretty much 1 year and half after Vista was released I would not have recommended Vista to anyone who just a basic end user… even though I was able to solve issues I know many people simply wouldn’t be bothered.

For me personally there was a good enough payoff in usability and productivity… also for a lower powered computer yea its not a good option… by the sound of it, 2 minutes to open a webpage even with XP… i would never have upgraded.

However for a middle of the range comp its fine… and heres why… perhaps it will run a little slower then xp on the same resources, however I can promise you that in a years time, vista will be outstripping xp. Vista has much much better system cleaning technology and background defragmenting and will not slow down anywhere near as drastically as xp does.

As far as UAC goes… just turn it off its such an issue? I leave it on and the only times I find it frustrating is when i want to delete files… THEN I curse vista like the best of you.

And to be honest, the people who I have seen to be the biggest haters of vista are the people working in customer support and the computer industry, obviously because initially it means an increased workload for you… to learn the new system, help people etc… the long term benefits are least obvious to these people…

I would definitely recommend Ubuntu for the basic end user over XP any day… seriously, XP is just so crap… I hate having to use it

>>As far as UAC goes… just turn it off its such an issue? <<

Please provide detailed instructions on how to do that.

“But Windows is an OS meant for use by the general public. As such it needs to be usable by minimally capable consumer.”
Yeah, vista is for the general public. And the general public will usually only get a new OS if it comes with their new pc. On this new pc, vista will run fine for them and there won’t be any problems. Upgrading your old pc (which is incapable of running vista properly) to vista is the real problem where driver issues etc occur.

“>>As far as UAC goes… just turn it off its such an issue? <<
Please provide detailed instructions on how to do that.”
Simple. Just open the control panel, go to user accounts, click ‘turn user account control on/off’, uncheck the tick box and click ok.

“Even on a computer with stronger specs, what’s the purpose of using Vista over XP? From what we can tell, Vista is a pretty-looking resource hog. If we were that worried about looks, we could make XP look just as nice for a fraction of the cost (both in resources and the cost of the OS itself).” You mustn’t be using the computers with vista a lot then, if you think the only differences are the visual effects. What about the organisation of explorer or the start menu? Instant search? Windows sidebar? The backup and restore center? Windows mail, calendar, dvd maker? Mobility center? Meeting space? Shadow copy? Parental controls? Sideshow? Speech recognition? Problem diagnostics? Disk management? These are all things that make vista more useable and convenient for the average user – out of the box – not after spending an hour installing 10-15 add-ons. I hate xp’s start menu now that I’m used to vista’s instant search (and if you don’t you can still change it back to the old way, the same goes for visual styles). I use the favourite links panel constantly. Same goes for the mobility center (I use a laptop with vista, my desktop still runs xp). Thanks to the sync center I don’t need to manually replace the files on my usb stick. I love having my windows contacts synced with my phone. I could go on for hours… And for all those that say “but I can install programs on xp that do the same”, my key point is: out of the box. I can tell you if I installed add-ons on my desktop (running xp) for all those features that I use on my laptop (vista) regularly – then the former would run slower than my laptop even though they are quite similar in terms of system specs.

Pietzki I agree you can tell allot of people complaining about Vista have not given it much of a try otherwise they would know about some of the things you mentioned.Vista is far more secure than XP it is more stable than XP .Then there is the disk partitioning that is built in has been improved but the general public probably does not know what disk partitioning is. My position is that if the general public are going to use a computer they can not blame the operating system because they are computer illiterate.There may be an operating system that is easy for the general public to use someday but there is not one yet ,Windows is the easiest in my opinion. There is no such thing as an operating system that is easy to use for the general public if there were people would not be paying the Geek Squad and others like them the ridiculous fees they charge for their help.

The people in the video as I understood it did not own Vista or have any experience with it. They had only heard it was no good. I’ll have to discredit Microsoft’s little experiment on this alone. In my opinion it just would’nt work with experienced Vista users.

Problem: You hate Vista.
Solution: Don’t use it.

Gee, isn’t that simple?

I hate Mac, Linux and anything not Microsoft with passion but you won’t see me spending hours on end complaining. Just stop complaining.

@Khaled

Yay for random uneducated choice of software… not!

You won’t see me on this forum or any others complaining about other operating systems why because Windows Vista works great for me and I really do not care if the whiny cry babies out there in the computing world cannot get it to work for them .The reason they could not get it to work is because they are lazy and do not want to take the time to learn how to use new features or even look for them they want some one else to do it for them.I build PC’s and it is in my best interest to learn about a new operating system as I will start doing for Windows 7 as soon as I can get my hands on it.

Rarst - the point of my post was to simply state that if you’re not a fan of something then so be it..just don’t use it.

Vista works great for me on my Asus A7SV notebook and it does everything I need it to do where as any non-microsoft OS doesn’t meet my needs. So since I’m not a fan of any other OS I just won’t use it. Simple as that.

There’s no need for me to force my opinion down anybody’s throat just because they prefer another piece of software that I don’t like.

“Yay for random uneducated choice of software… not!”

That’s a little immature.

@Khaled

Problem with “not using” here is that there is no such option. Microsoft WILL force everyone to it. Whatever it takes.

Choice is to shut up and eat it or struggle and try to voice your opinion.

“Don’t like - don’t use” may be pretty valid for third party utility or niche OS, but not something as dominating as Windows.

>That’s a little immature.

Sleepy morning, bad for deep thoughts.

Oh well that’s the way the world is - you can either build your own OS to kick Microsoft out of business or just stop whining